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Thread: Dive Risk Factors, Gas Bubble Formation, and Decompression Illness

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    Re: Dive Risk Factors, Gas Bubble Formation, and Decompression Illness

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterVICEG  View Original Post
    I have had a beer but... any study based on self reported data is suspect.
    Understood, but it says the data was collected electronically from dive computers. So how is it possible for that data to be altered by the participants?

  2. #22
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    Re: Dive Risk Factors, Gas Bubble Formation, and Decompression Illness

    Quote Originally Posted by silent running  View Original Post
    Understood, but it says the data was collected electronically from dive computers. So how is it possible for that data to be altered by the participants?
    I don’t think there is any reason to think that the data was altered. But it is not a controlled experiment.

    Large numbers of participants but few reported issues are extrapolated to create the findings.

    I struggle to take advice from this work.

  3. #23
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    Re: Dive Risk Factors, Gas Bubble Formation, and Decompression Illness

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterVICEG  View Original Post
    I don’t think there is any reason to think that the data was altered. But it is not a controlled experiment.

    Large numbers of participants but few reported issues are extrapolated to create the findings.

    I struggle to take advice from this work.
    Understood, but there is a good amount of information to sift through. Doppler readings were taken as were descriptions of workloads. Not for all the participants, not comprehensive, but I'm guessing that these samples together with the large number of computer data gives us more information than most other studies.

    The unpredictability of DCS is news all by itself, just from the large number of participants computer profile data. That fact is not modified at all by self reporting.

    The Doppler scores of the sample groups and the indeterminacy of detected bubbles and correlation to DCS are also thought provoking.

    I hope some of the hyperbaric physicians known to RBW will weigh in at some point...

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    Re: Dive Risk Factors, Gas Bubble Formation, and Decompression Illness

    Quote Originally Posted by silent running  View Original Post
    Understood, but there is a good amount of information to sift through. Doppler readings were taken as were descriptions of workloads. Not for all the participants, not comprehensive, but I'm guessing that these samples together with the large number of computer data gives us more information than most other studies.

    The unpredictability of DCS is news all by itself, just from the large number of participants computer profile data. That fact is not modified at all by self reporting.

    The Doppler scores of the sample groups and the indeterminacy of detected bubbles and correlation to DCS are also thought provoking.

    I hope some of the hyperbaric physicians known to RBW will weigh in at some point...

    The NON-correlation of bubbles to DCS has been out for a while but not talked much. More of us bubble after a dive than not. That being said, the detection of microbubbles has been a challenge but there are new modalities that improve their detection. So, it is difficult to study the phenomena of bubbles when we don't have the technology to do so. There are scientists that focus on bubble detection and correlation to DCS and there are scientists that consider that bubbles alone may not be causing the other phenomena: DCS. That being said, without perfect bubble detection even on a micro level, correlations for or against will be difficult to make.


    The gender differences identified in this study is interesting. Here women had a higher propensity to getting DCS but in the study by Boussuges, Retali, Bodere-Melin, Gardette, Caruran, "Gender differences in circulating bubble production after SCUBA diving", July 2009, they found premenopausal women to have fewer circulating bubbles with no difference between men and postmenopausal women. In a study by Hagberg and Ornhagen found no differences of DCS symptoms between men and women. An other study of 150 women (Vivienne, Dowse, et al) found a possible relationship of DCS to a woman's phase of her menstrual cycle.


    Claudia

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    Re: Dive Risk Factors, Gas Bubble Formation, and Decompression Illness

    Quote Originally Posted by dreamdive  View Original Post
    The NON-correlation of bubbles to DCS has been out for a while but not talked much. More of us bubble after a dive than not. That being said, the detection of microbubbles has been a challenge but there are new modalities that improve their detection. So, it is difficult to study the phenomena of bubbles when we don't have the technology to do so. There are scientists that focus on bubble detection and correlation to DCS and there are scientists that consider that bubbles alone may not be causing the other phenomena: DCS. That being said, without perfect bubble detection even on a micro level, correlations for or against will be difficult to make.


    Claudia
    Agreed.. Think lot of knowledge is still missing.

    Sent from my LG-K420 using Tapatalk

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    RBW Member Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P is just really nice Igor P's Avatar
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    Re: Dive Risk Factors, Gas Bubble Formation, and Decompression Illness

    Quote Originally Posted by silent running  View Original Post
    Hi Igor, I forgot to answer this post, thank you very much for the offer. I think there are a variety of questions members might have, and I would encourage members to pose questions in this thread which hopefully can be passed along.

    I would like to know if any of the authors have theories as to why some bubbles are harmful and others are not. What makes some bubbles stick together and others are slippery enough to prevent aggregation? -Andy
    Hi Andy, only noticed your comment now...
    From last talk to Dr. Marroni, there is none... Nothing firm jet... But need to say it is quite some time from his last email..

    Hopefuly something pops out soon...
    Will see if I can get any update on the topics..

    Sent from my LG-K420 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Igor P; 22nd March 2018 at 14:22.

  7. #27
    Mature mouth breather silent running has a reputation beyond repute silent running has a reputation beyond repute silent running has a reputation beyond repute silent running has a reputation beyond repute silent running has a reputation beyond repute silent running has a reputation beyond repute silent running has a reputation beyond repute silent running has a reputation beyond repute silent running has a reputation beyond repute silent running has a reputation beyond repute silent running has a reputation beyond repute silent running's Avatar
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    Re: Dive Risk Factors, Gas Bubble Formation, and Decompression Illness

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor P  View Original Post
    Hi Andy, only noticed your comment now...
    From last talk to Dr. Marroni, there is none... Nothing firm jet... But need to say it is quite some time from his last email..

    Hopefuly something pops out soon...
    Will see if I can get any update on the topics..

    Sent from my LG-K420 using Tapatalk
    That would be great, thanks!

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