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Thread: Keep Me Alive... The cost of being cheap on sensors

  1. #1
    Chett Lehrer Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L's Avatar
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    Keep Me Alive... The cost of being cheap on sensors

    It think it's fair to say that everybody is on their own individual schedule
    when it comes to changing out old sensors and replacing them with new ones.

    Here are ways I think some users are changing sensors and adding new ones.

    Some are:
    Using cell checkers, changing sensors once the cell starts falling off below factory specs, Low MV readings. Out of range.

    Changing all new sensors every 12 months.
    Some are changing all new sensors every 15 months.
    Adding 1 new sensor every 6 months.
    Adding 1 new sensor every 4 months (this is what I am doing)
    Checking the sensor at the begging of the dive at 20 feet with 100% with 02 to 1.6 PO2 (Alarm) for a moment to check if the sensors are current limited. Or at the end of the dive, same test. Must be trained to do this test.

    Stopped diving for years. Still own their rebreather unit, sits at home doing nothing. Sensors are no good.

    What's frustrating to hear and read about, why do some people try to get 2 and 3 years out of there sensors before getting new ones?

    A note to new rebreather divers. Buying a new sensor 1,2,3,4 or 5 of them, at a time. Sometimes the new un-opened sensor is bad right out of the new box. Buying a new sensor 1 or more needs to still be checked.

    Why are some peoples attitudes cheap when it comes to something that is so vitally
    important for life support particularly on a rebreather?

    How much time in training do we need to cover this topic?

    (This is my question for everybody that dives rebreathers) It seems that some people are cheap, they struggle with justifying the cost of buying new sensors but have no problem spending 5,10-$15,000 on a new or used rebreather and training. Also spend thousands of dollars on vacations, toys, motorcycles & cars, scooters, underwater camera's, dive gear, drysuits, etc. But when it comes to spending a hundred dollars or more on buying new sensors some divers find ways for not justifying the cost to buy new sensors when they should. This is a such a shame. How Come and why?
    Last edited by Chett.L; 19th September 2016 at 01:18.
    Chett. L

  2. #2
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Re: Keep Me Alive... The cost of being cheap on sensors

    Sensors fail thats part and parcle of CCR diving like 0 ring failures are part of diveing

    New sensors fail, sensors under 12 months old fail, three year old sensors fail


    The problem is how we manage the cells in use and how we deal with a failure

    I change my cells every 12 months in a rotation pattern but ONLY because it minimises my chances of missing a dive.


    I have in the past (waiting for the AP Bud replacement) dived my cells till they failed

    There was no drama, no issue, no nothing. When they failed It cost me the dive thats that


    Changing cells every 12 months doesn't male you safe

    Changing cells every 6 months doesent make you safe

    Having more than three cells doesnet make you safe and can be very confusing

    The ONLY thing that makes you safe is monitoring cell performance before during and after the dive and managing issues logicly and / or safely.

    No one in the total history of CCR diveing ever died from a cell failure.

    They died because they either didnt monitor their cells properly or because when they noticed the failure they didnt manage the issue in a safe way.



    As I have said before I sugest a 12 month cycle on cells with stagerd rotation and I recomend this strongly as a missed dive is bloody expensive in terms of both pink passes and money.

    Saftey of the cells doesn't even figure in my thaught process

    For three cells to fail in a uniform way to the extent id fail to notice it is right up there with shark attack on my risk assesment scale.

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    Re: Keep Me Alive... The cost of being cheap on sensors

    Breathing recycled gasses underwater is not safe! Please do so at your own risk!

  4. #4
    Chett Lehrer Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L's Avatar
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    Re: Keep Me Alive... The cost of being cheap on sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    Sensors fail thats part and parcle of CCR diving like 0 ring failures are part of diveing

    New sensors fail, sensors under 12 months old fail, three year old sensors fail


    The problem is how we manage the cells in use and how we deal with a failure

    I change my cells every 12 months in a rotation pattern but ONLY because it minimises my chances of missing a dive.


    I have in the past (waiting for the AP Bud replacement) dived my cells till they failed

    There was no drama, no issue, no nothing. When they failed It cost me the dive thats that


    Changing cells every 12 months doesn't male you safe

    Changing cells every 6 months doesent make you safe

    Having more than three cells doesnet make you safe and can be very confusing

    The ONLY thing that makes you safe is monitoring cell performance before during and after the dive and managing issues logicly and / or safely.

    No one in the total history of CCR diveing ever died from a cell failure.

    They died because they either didnt monitor their cells properly or because when they noticed the failure they didnt manage the issue in a safe way.



    As I have said before I sugest a 12 month cycle on cells with stagerd rotation and I recomend this strongly as a missed dive is bloody expensive in terms of both pink passes and money.

    Saftey of the cells doesn't even figure in my thaught process

    For three cells to fail in a uniform way to the extent id fail to notice it is right up there with shark attack on my risk assesment scale.
    Hi Mark,

    Wasn't there a case where (2) sensors died at the same time in a unit that had 3 sensors and it screwed up the voting logic.

    Best regards,
    Chett. L

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    Re: Keep Me Alive... The cost of being cheap on sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by Chett.L  View Original Post
    Hi Mark,

    Wasn't there a case where (2) sensors died at the same time in a unit that had 3 sensors and it screwed up the voting logic.

    Best regards,
    Yes, but the cells were 40 months, 40 months and 17 months old:

    Report: https://cognitasresearch.wordpress.c...nquest-report/

    And the Coroner: https://cognitasresearch.files.wordp...hilip-gray.pdf

    For me I am changing one cell every 3-6 months depending on the diving schedule and not running any cell over 18 months old. And keeping the last one out as the spare.

    Matt.
    Last edited by matthewoutram; 18th September 2016 at 20:45.

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    Re: Keep Me Alive... The cost of being cheap on sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewoutram  View Original Post
    Yes, but the cells were 40 months, 40 months and 17 months old:

    Report: https://cognitasresearch.wordpress.c...nquest-report/

    And the Coroner: https://cognitasresearch.files.wordp...hilip-gray.pdf

    For me I am changing one cell every 3-6 months depending on the diving schedule and not running any cell over 18 months old. And keeping the last one out as the spare.

    Matt.
    Hi Matt,

    I think Kevin Gurr said to not keep the spare sensor in a air tight sealed bag as you know.

    Best regards,
    Chett. L

  7. #7
    Chett Lehrer Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L's Avatar
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    Re: Keep Me Alive... The cost of being cheap on sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewoutram  View Original Post
    Yes, but the cells were 40 months, 40 months and 17 months old:

    Report: https://cognitasresearch.wordpress.c...nquest-report/

    And the Coroner: https://cognitasresearch.files.wordp...hilip-gray.pdf

    For me I am changing one cell every 3-6 months depending on the diving schedule and not running any cell over 18 months old. And keeping the last one out as the spare.

    Matt.
    Hi Matt,

    Thank you for post about COGNITAS INCIDENT RESEARCH & MANAGEMENT. I did not know about this site or have seen this before.

    Best regards,
    Chett. L

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    Re: Keep Me Alive... The cost of being cheap on sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by Chett.L  View Original Post
    Hi Matt,

    I think Kevin Gurr said to not keep the spare sensor in a air tight sealed bag as you know.
    Why not?

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    Re: Keep Me Alive... The cost of being cheap on sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by Chett.L  View Original Post
    Hi Matt,

    I think Kevin Gurr said to not keep the spare sensor in a air tight sealed bag as you know.

    Best regards,
    I keep mine wrapped in cling-film. Mostly to keep it dry. Doesn't seem to do any harm.

    Cheers
    Matt.

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    Re: Keep Me Alive... The cost of being cheap on sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewoutram  View Original Post
    Yes, but the cells were 40 months, 40 months and 17 months old:

    Report: https://cognitasresearch.wordpress.c...nquest-report/

    And the Coroner: https://cognitasresearch.files.wordp...hilip-gray.pdf

    For me I am changing one cell every 3-6 months depending on the diving schedule and not running any cell over 18 months old. And keeping the last one out as the spare.

    Matt.

    Same thing different unit happened here to Ron Akeson. 2 low failing cells led to hyperoxic loop and O2 tox fatality, with students in a class.

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