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Thread: Where did all the homebuilders go?

  1. #11
    ANDI IT #47 andibk will become famous soon enough andibk will become famous soon enough andibk will become famous soon enough andibk's Avatar
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    Re: Where did all the homebuilders go?

    Can somebody please post a link to the CCR Homebuilders page on FB. When I do a search all i get is people selling homes etc. Thanks in advance.

    Bruce

  2. #12
    Thinker n Tinkerer Sparedone is an unknown quantity at this point Sparedone's Avatar
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    Re: Where did all the homebuilders go?

    Quote Originally Posted by andibk  View Original Post
    Can somebody please post a link to the CCR Homebuilders page on FB. When I do a search all i get is people selling homes etc. Thanks in advance.

    Bruce
    I surfaced in: ccr Custombuilders. A search should have it turn up.

    And the tp2000 is shear genius. Saddened I'm too new to have known the designer. Does anyone have photos of tp3000, sounds like practical tiny Bob.
    Last edited by Sparedone; 16th June 2016 at 18:35.

  3. #13
    RBW Member Mike_Eitel is an unknown quantity at this point Mike_Eitel's Avatar
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    Re: Where did all the homebuilders go?

    Saddly I have to agree. DIY folks becomes a rare species.
    Just yesterday evening on a bigger rebreather round table meating we have been two in maybe 30.

    And i agree that people making their one equippment tend to understand deeper and I believe in case of problems they can do better root cause analyses..

    Mike

  4. #14
    RBW Member BKSOLLY is an unknown quantity at this point BKSOLLY's Avatar
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    Re: Where did all the homebuilders go?

    I am still here. I also still build. We the home builder hang together on facebook often. I have not been on this forum in some time. I see home building rebreathers going the way hang gliding went. We the home builder get looked down upon by mainstream. Verbally beaten down by those who have neither the skills nor ambitions to create for themselves. We then have been deamonized from the scuba industry. We have been fored into the shadows and villified. With all of this being said, I have never been treated this way on RBW. We are smaller in number, but we are still here.

  5. #15
    Acme Serpentine Lubricant lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland's Avatar
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    Re: Where did all the homebuilders go?

    I'd take a guess that the availability of cheap used rebreathers had a big influence. That's why I stopped. In the end I bought both my KISS and my Mk15 for the same money that I would've had to invest in the next iterations of my homebuilds. Why bother when you can just go dive with a unit that works?

    Sub £1000 Inspirations are not unusual. Far easier to buy one, spend 500 quid on it and go diving on a reliable unit than spend double that on something that may or may not work when you need it to.

    Test diving my homebuilds taught me a lot about diving. I dont think you need the experience of building it but certainly the experience of taking an unknown unit and gradually pushing it to find its limits is easily worth more than any MOD1.


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  6. #16
    Reads fine print (mostly) Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather's Avatar
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    Re: Where did all the homebuilders go?

    Still here and still making stuff.

    Several ways to look at this. (toggle rant mode on)

    One (depressing) angle is generational. The younger folks are, the more likely they are to be slaves to the gods of instant gratification. They don't want to "waste" time building a rebreather when they can just buy a commercial rig and go diving.

    I, and I suspect many (most?) other homebuilders, enjoy the process of creating something as much as I do using it. When homebuilders start with envisioning something, thinking the original thought through, physically building it, and then dive it with great results the resulting high is one people who are prisoners of the blister pack-bar code world (means they only dive stuff other people thought up, manufactured, and sold packaged with a bar code) will never know. Please understand that I'm not throwing rocks at folks who buy stuff. Heck, I buy stuff all the time (too much stuff if you ask my wife.....). I'm fully aware that not everyone has the technical background, time, or workshop to make things, and that's OK. What I AM saying is that there's an additional dimension of satisfaction that they will unfortunately never have the opportunity to experience.

    Yet another angle is how the channeling of the natural creativity of all young people has been directed at the high school level. Two generations ago, most schools at least offered wood shop and/ or metal shop classes. Kids learned you can actually MAKE REAL STUFF with your own hands. One generation ago, wood shop classes were sometimes available, but not everywhere. These days due to a toxic combination of liability and budget issues I'd bet finding such classes is rare indeed. You're far more likely to find that creative kid writing apps in a computer lab.

    (toggle rant mode off)

  7. #17
    Acme Serpentine Lubricant lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland has a reputation beyond repute lizardland's Avatar
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    Re: Where did all the homebuilders go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skipbreather  View Original Post
    Still here and still making stuff.

    Several ways to look at this. (toggle rant mode on)

    One (depressing) angle is generational. The younger folks are, the more likely they are to be slaves to the gods of instant gratification. They don't want to "waste" time building a rebreather when they can just buy a commercial rig and go diving.
    Not to mention newer divers are entering a world where the industry gurus and "experts" are telling them they need a course to do anything. Every 5 metres of depth progression, do a course. Add a little bit of helium, do a course. Add a bit more helium, do a course. Add a lot of helium, do a course. Buy a rebreather barely noticeably different to your previous rebreather, do a crossover. Put a rebreather on instead of a twinset to go cave diving, do a course.

    Everybody buys into the instant expert pyramid scheme because the gurus say you need to do a course. It's like asking Pfizer whether you should spend money on viagra or a Bulgarian hooker.

    The skill of independent thought seems to be dying.

    Build and use an unkown rebreather? Not spend 6 grand on our latest Acme Super Diver machine? Work out how to use it on your own? What are you? Some kind of communist or something?

    Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by lizardland; 19th June 2016 at 22:51.

  8. #18
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    Re: Where did all the homebuilders go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    I am sure many are put off by the age of politicly correct divers

    10 years ago if you posted a bout building a CCR out of an old coffie tin and some B&Q parts most would be saying Coooooolllll

    Now there'd be all sort of "your going to die" rants

    Most of the home builders I know / knew were super CCR divers with a proper understanding of how they worked and should be dived
    Quote Originally Posted by lizardland  View Original Post
    I'd take a guess that the availability of cheap used rebreathers had a big influence. That's why I stopped. In the end I bought both my KISS and my Mk15 for the same money that I would've had to invest in the next iterations of my homebuilds. Why bother when you can just go dive with a unit that works?

    Sub £1000 Inspirations are not unusual. Far easier to buy one, spend 500 quid on it and go diving on a reliable unit than spend double that on something that may or may not work when you need it to.
    50:50 these ^

    There is no longer any commercial units of interest to me due to everyone herding down the same CE bullshit line of design and operation.

    I bought very cheap used, 3rd party and new Inspiration parts and built a set of lungs and MCCR system to run it, all up cost less than £1200 and has been most reliable unit I've ever owned, no need to come on here and get advice as no-one can advise you on a homebuild


    These days if you don't want an all singing ECCR you are basically on your own as the forums, instructors, agencies, shops and manufacturers actively dissuade you, limit your holiday/travel options, buying options and access to technology.

    I blame the Agencies crusade to profit model that kills anything it can't monetise, they have campaigned for tour operators to police qualifications and centres, boats and nations to check certification. They have no right to do this but the sheep like behaviour of pay-to-certify divers who want to collect tickets has granted them ad-hoc authority they neither deserve nor earnt. FFS even insurers now ask about certs despite there being no legal reason to hold one or audits on their quality or content.

    As such Homebuilders have "left the building" with middle finger aloft to the un-modded wasteland of Facebook and are wallowing merrily in obscurity.

  9. #19
    RBW Member Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy is a glorious beacon of light Chris Kennedy's Avatar
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    Red face Re: Where did all the homebuilders go?

    Home builders are not fading away,just moved to facebook where they share ideas and their units . There is a lot off good stuff out there I personally have built a very nice sidemount unit recently
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  10. #20
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    Re: Where did all the homebuilders go?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Kennedy  View Original Post
    Home builders are not fading away,just moved to facebook where they share ideas and their units . There is a lot off good stuff out there I personally have built a very nice sidemount unit recently
    Rockin' the counterlungs, Chris!

    Just a note - we still see a fair number of homebuilders in our business. I think companies like ours and Golem are the only ones that do.

    But it definitely seems to me to be a generational thing. Fewer younger divers interested in the "technical" aspects of diving or rebreathers.

    Based on what I've seen in the industry as a whole, I think "technical" rebreather diving (which I would define as below 180 fsw and/or using Trimix/Heliox) is in decline. Not sure about recreational rebreather diving, since we don't swim in those waters much beyond fixing the Poseidon rigs.

    Kevin.

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