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Thread: Is there an IDA-71 conversion tutorial? Can somebody make one?

  1. #11
    Reads fine print (mostly) Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather's Avatar
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    Re: Is there an IDA-71 conversion tutorial? Can somebody make one?

    Let me save you a ton of money and perhaps your life.

    I taught myself to dive rebreathers using my homebuilt rigs and survived. I did extensive study before hand, I'm a mechanical engineer, had a thorough understanding of gas laws, had already been diving for 25 years, and had a solid grasp of both the mechanics of the rig and the physiological aspects BUT still I was **very** lucky not to have become a statistic.

    Later I converted an IDA71 and dove it for a couple of years over 15 years ago. Once upon a year there was an on line how-to, but it's been gone for at least 10 years- for good reason. The conversion was marginal at best. After just one season I reconverted the rig my own way, throwing EVERYTHING away except the counter lung, one scrubber, and the shell. Using just one of the two scrubbers made the rig susceptible to over-breathing, with CO2 bypass, in all but modest workload situations.

    The IDA71 looks deceptively like some modern rebreathers, but it is NOT. It was designed to be used with one of the scrubbers filled with what's sometimes called a superoxide, a type of scrubber material that gives off one O2 molecule for each molecule of CO2 it sucks up. The stuff is so corrosive that it will eat thru a half-inch steel deck in minutes if wet with sea water- and the Russians dove with it. The gas plumbing and flow logic reflect the above and are exceptionally counter intuitive. Numerous homebuilders have DIED on IDA71s because they did not understand the way it works.

    I am a whole hearted supporter of folks building their own gear and there are some REALLY talented people on this site who have done just that. To an individual, I'd bet they'll all agree that by the time you get your homebuilt rig to be as reliable and capable as today's commercial models you WILL have spent as much money as the cost of a modest, decent used rebreather. The payback is that you'll understand every square inch of your rig and can fix it quickly when (not if) it breaks. ALL rebreathers break eventually; it's just a matter of when.

    Many of today's CCR instructors rent rebreather to students. If you still want to homebuild your own rig, my strong advice would be to FIRST find an instructor who teaches simple CMF manual rebreathers, like the KISS Classic, and has one to rent. Once you pass the course you will be in a significantly better position to decide if you still want to build your own and how to go about it if you do.

    The Cliff Notes version of my above diatribe:
    1. Buy the time you get your homebuilt to work reliably, you'll spend as much as to buy a used one.
    2. Without at least SOME basic instruction before hand, you chances of becoming a statistic go WAY up.

    Anyway, have fun building and dive safe,
    Ken

  2. #12
    RBW Member Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse's Avatar
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    Re: Is there an IDA-71 conversion tutorial? Can somebody make one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skipbreather  View Original Post
    Numerous homebuilders have DIED on IDA71s because they did not understand the way it works......
    Ken
    Got any more info on this?

    A few years ago I heard that there wast any fatalities of modified IDA71 divers.

  3. #13
    RBW Member Snusmumrik will become famous soon enough Snusmumrik will become famous soon enough Snusmumrik will become famous soon enough Snusmumrik's Avatar
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    Re: Is there an IDA-71 conversion tutorial? Can somebody make one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skipbreather  View Original Post
    Numerous homebuilders have DIED on IDA71s because they did not understand the way it works.
    Ken
    Ken, with all respect to your experience and qualification, without some proofs your words aren't worth a penny.
    9 years of my experience of IDA-71 with original integrated 1st stages, hoses, gauges and all other stuff gave me a right to say this.
    At least, there are "numerous" divers, which die on far more sofisticated Inspo (remember YBOD), Poseidon Mk.6 and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skipbreather  View Original Post
    The stuff is so corrosive that it will eat thru a half-inch steel deck in minutes if wet with sea water- and the Russians dove with it.
    Man, you knows nothing about this stuff My experience of 100lbs of used superoxide
    vs your words - this stuff is not a such horrifying thing as you say.
    Last edited by Snusmumrik; 18th April 2016 at 07:56.

  4. #14
    Reads fine print (mostly) Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather's Avatar
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    Re: Is there an IDA-71 conversion tutorial? Can somebody make one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Packhorse  View Original Post
    Got any more info on this?

    A few years ago I heard that there wast any fatalities of modified IDA71 divers.

    First - and I'm not just blowing sunshine up your skirt here - you're one of those really talented folks I referred to above. I also suspect you had a pretty decent handle on what makes rebreathers tick before you got into your conversion. Keep in mind my missive (even I called it a 'diatribe' ) was offered to a zero RB literate neophyte looking for a 'put tab a into slot b' build guide complete with part numbers.

    As far as guys dissin' yer rig not making you all that happy, I totally get it. We all get chuffed when folks criticize the ones we love- human or CCR. I still have a really soft spot for My 71's final version. As I write this it's sitting on a table in my shop just a dozen inches from my Meg even though it hasn't been wet for over a dozen years.

    I suspect only a few of the members here remember Gopher, the first real internet search engine (pre-www). Point is, this interweb thingy has evolved massively since Gopher and 71s were occasionally offing the uninformed and untrained even back then. There was no point and click amassing of data all neatly waiting to quench a flame war. Word of mouth and occasionally Aquacorps passed statistics. I've been thru over a half dozen computer data migrations since then and any hard data I once had has gone to that galaxy far, far away where the recycled electrons from bad hard drive sectors wind up.

    BTW- How is your 71 doing these days? Diving it much? I've been following your electronics exploits with great interest.

    Best,
    Ken

  5. #15
    Reads fine print (mostly) Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather has a brilliant future Skipbreather's Avatar
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    Re: Is there an IDA-71 conversion tutorial? Can somebody make one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Snusmumrik  View Original Post
    Ken, with all respect to your experience and qualification, without some proofs your words aren't worth a penny.
    9 years of my experience of IDA-71 with original integrated 1st stages, hoses, gauges and all other stuff gave me a right to say this.
    At least, there are "numerous" divers, which die on far more sofisticated Inspo (remember YBOD), Poseidon Mk.6 and so on.


    Man, you knows nothing about this stuff My experience of 100lbs of used superoxide
    vs your words - this stuff is not a such horrifying thing as you say.
    Hello-

    I get your points, but consider: you command of technically oriented Russian language is undoubtedly far superior to 99.9% of folks on this site, giving you the ability to understand the original technical manuals in depth. You know what you are working with.

    As far as utilizing the original regs, etc. - I'll bet a case of beer that replacement parts are a lot easier to scrounge in your St. Petersburg than in, say, St. Petersburg, Florida.

    Tanks? I confess I do not know the regulations for filling tanks where you are, but In the EU and USA they cannot be filled commercially; you have to fill them yourself. That's what I did, but many who dive CCR do not have that ability. Certainly it is likely someone new to the sport like the OP will not.

    When it comes to superoxides, I first became aware of them when several US Navy A-4 OBAs came in an auction lot I bought for some other equipment. As I researched the missing canisters and talked to former Navy firefighters, I gained a healthy respect for the unreacted material's properties, especially its tendency to react *violently* when contacting oil or gasoline. To the best of my knowledge only one navy in the world has made large scale use of it underwater. Take from that whatever you choose to.

    Congrats on creating a 71 conversion that meets your needs. I know you must have put considerable work into it. Just out of curiosity, are you still using the original breathing hoses and/ or DSV? I found them very restrictive. When I machined adapters and installed hoses and DSV from a MK15 the WOB was like a whole different rig.

    Best,
    Ken

  6. #16
    RBW Member Urban Peer is an unknown quantity at this point Urban Peer's Avatar
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    Re: Is there an IDA-71 conversion tutorial? Can somebody make one?

    Quote Originally Posted by dshield55  View Original Post
    lol, why didn't anybody ever tell me that you could just buy a Dolphin for $500-$700? Problem solved. Thanks guys!

    I'm still interested in a step by step build tutorial though. If no one ever gets around to it, maybe I'll just write one in a couple years after I figure all this stuff out.
    The Dolphin is the best way to get into rebreathers. It is a reliable good unit. I dove it for 5Years until i figured out that converting it to ccr was that easy. but it took me another 5 years of learning and studiing how it works and getting al parts together.(main reasonfor that is that there is no final solution. It is a process!) today i enjoy diving it but i still stay rec for savety reasons. Because i feel i am still at the doorstep. Rushing kills. Think like a sniper: you need a target to go for, once you are on it move ssssssllllloooowwwwwllllyyyy
    Anyway i think Martin (www.tecme.de) could help you. He offers everything a homebuilder needs.

  7. #17
    RBW Member jale is on a distinguished road jale is on a distinguished road jale's Avatar
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    Re: Is there an IDA-71 conversion tutorial? Can somebody make one?

    Hi
    You also have the Classic AP to "play with" and make as a mccr.
    Don't forget also the "lego approach": you buy step by step second hand parts and you can get yourself a nice unit...
    But anyway, as previously said, the priority is to know what you are doing and a "tutorial" is may be not the best way to start.
    Jale

  8. #18
    RBW Member Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse is a glorious beacon of light Packhorse's Avatar
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    Re: Is there an IDA-71 conversion tutorial? Can somebody make one?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skipbreather  View Original Post
    ............I've been thru over a half dozen computer data migrations since then and any hard data I once had has gone to that galaxy far, far away where the recycled electrons from bad hard drive sectors wind up.
    A simple "no" would have been enough ;)
    BTW- How is your 71 doing these days? Diving it much? I've been following your electronics exploits with great interest.

    Best,
    Ken
    No I have not dived it in nearly 6 years. I would love to have the time to get it going again, but I simply dont have the time nor does it suit any of the diving I am doing.
    I should point out that by the time I had finished modifying it the only part left that was original was the case.

  9. #19
    RBW Member kenkokan is an unknown quantity at this point kenkokan's Avatar
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    Re: Is there an IDA-71 conversion tutorial? Can somebody make one?

    Hello friends. Here are a few photos of my IDA-71 for example. I have been ruling them for seven years. It can not be destroyed or spoiled. If you have problems understanding this device, then this is not the fault of IDA-71.







    Last edited by kenkokan; 7th April 2017 at 05:43.

  10. #20

    Re: Is there an IDA-71 conversion tutorial? Can somebody make one?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenkokan  View Original Post
    Hello friends. Here are a few photos of my IDA-71 for example. I have been ruling them for seven years. It can not be destroyed or spoiled. If you have problems understanding this device, then this is not the fault of IDA-71.








    Good evening
    Beautiful transformation.
    More details about the changes.
    Cordially.
    Pat.

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