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Thread: Reaching out to owners of a DiveRite Arrow

  1. #21
    Supporting Member nicklinux is an unknown quantity at this point nicklinux's Avatar
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    Hammerhead

    Darwin mCCR, MK15, Hobo, Flex

    Reaching out to owners of a DiveRite Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Danyboy  View Original Post
    Are you able to perhaps take a picture or two so I can see what it looks like inside your hull...?
    That would be really great!
    I thought of some installation on my own, but I definitely would like to have a look at the original as that solution might save me some weight...

    Cheers,
    Dany

    Sure, I'll be back home somewhere next week and take bunch if pics.

  2. #22
    RBW Member Jon Nellis will become famous soon enough Jon Nellis will become famous soon enough Jon Nellis will become famous soon enough Jon Nellis's Avatar
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    Re: Reaching out to owners of a DiveRite Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by nicklinux  View Original Post
    Also, forgot to mention, make sure you use sealed dry cell battery's ! With regular acid battery's you will need to use catalyst to absorb hydrogen which produced during charging and a little during normal operation. Plus reg acid battery's constantly leak and will eat your aluminum housing pretty quick.

    Just so you know, ALL lead acid batteries vent hydrogen during CHARGING. That is why you cannot charge SLA batteries in a sealed scooter. They do not vent gas during discharge. The "Sealed" only refers to the electrolyte not being able to escape.

    NiMH batteries can produce hydrogen gas when deeply discharged. This is when you would need hydrogen gas absorber. Additionally, they will produce oxygen gas when overcharged. Not a great combination in a sealed enclosure with a brush motor and relays.

    That is why they tell you to open the scooter for recharging.



    Cheers,
    Jon Nellis
    Logic Dive Gear
    Last edited by Jon Nellis; 9th February 2014 at 15:53. Reason: spelling

  3. #23
    Supporting Member nicklinux is an unknown quantity at this point nicklinux's Avatar
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    Hammerhead

    Darwin mCCR, MK15, Hobo, Flex

    Reaching out to owners of a DiveRite Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Nellis  View Original Post
    Just so you know, ALL lead acid batteries vent hydrogen during CHARGING. That is why you cannot charge SLA batteries in a sealed scooter. They do not vent gas during discharge. The "Sealed" only refers to the electrolyte not being able to escape.

    NiMH batteries can produce hydrogen gas when deeply discharged. This is when you would need hydrogen gas absorber. Additionally, they will produce oxygen gas when overcharged. Not a great combination in a sealed enclosure with a brush motor and relays.

    That is why they tell you to open the scooter for recharging.



    Cheers,
    Jon Nellis
    Logic Dive Gear

    Jon,
    I hate to say, but you are terribly wrong by saying that SLA battery's DO NOT produce Hydrogen during discharge ! ANY lead acid battery will produce hydrogen and oxygen during ALL STATES of operation, charge, discharge, storage(self-discharge). The process of outgassing (water decomposition H20 = H2 + 1/2 O2) starts as soon as battery filled with acid and unfortunately unavoidable.
    AGM(absorbed glass mat) battery also producing hydrogen and oxygen but under normal conditions gas stays inside the battery for further recombination back to H20. during rapid charging process, outgassing could be too fast for recombination reaction and in this case pressure increase could reach high level and will be vented by special regulating valve system.
    Old Farallon scooters were equipped with two catalyst on the motor section and were there for a reason(to absorb hydrogen during normal operation which is discharge when scooter is in use ). Also, you do need to open most of the scooters for charging, the other way you simply wont be able to plug you charger in. Cheers..


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  4. #24
    RBW Member Danyboy will become famous soon enough Danyboy will become famous soon enough Danyboy will become famous soon enough Danyboy's Avatar
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    Re: Reaching out to owners of a DiveRite Arrow

    Ok, my take on the gassing is...

    That with the AGM-type of SLA's, the topic of gassing is similar to our deco-problem. Go with the current as low as you can (but fast enough to still be practical), and everything is fine. And the hydrogen does not know whether it's from charging or discharge, it's just getting produced. The faster you go from there, the higher the chance of off-gassing through the discharge-valve. Which should be oriented the right way for that reason, otherwise things get nasty...
    I used to use a regular seal-acid for rc-flying, big one that was, but it was just messy... I don't know how many times I had burning sensation on fingers etc, just because there was tiny spillage during transport, etc...

    Looking forward to your pictures, Nick! :)

    Cheers,
    Dany
    Last edited by Danyboy; 10th February 2014 at 07:21.

  5. #25
    RBW Member Jon Nellis will become famous soon enough Jon Nellis will become famous soon enough Jon Nellis will become famous soon enough Jon Nellis's Avatar
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    Re: Reaching out to owners of a DiveRite Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by nicklinux  View Original Post
    Jon,
    I hate to say, but you are terribly wrong by saying that SLA battery's DO NOT produce Hydrogen during discharge !
    Hi Nick,

    If you re-read my original post more carefully, you'll see that I never said that lead acid batteries do not produce hydrogen during discharge. I said they do not vent during discharge. That is the purpose of having a pressure regulating valve in the battery. See figure #4 at...

    The Basic Chemistry of Gas Recombination in Lead-Acid Batteries

    for a SLA test profile showing that pressure only builds (and vents) during charging (even float charging), not during rest or discharging. Technically, since there is a pressure differential, there will be some unmeasurable diffusion through the battery walls, but it would not be enough to worry about in between the normal opening of the unit to recharge. It could be an issue if a scooter with a SLA was left closed/sealed for an abnormally long time.

    As for opening a scooter to recharge, that is for chumps. All our scooters recharge from the outside.

    Cheers,
    Jon Nellis
    Logic Dive Gear

  6. #26
    Supporting Member nicklinux is an unknown quantity at this point nicklinux's Avatar
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    Darwin mCCR, MK15, Hobo, Flex

    Reaching out to owners of a DiveRite Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Nellis  View Original Post
    Hi Nick,

    If you re-read my original post more carefully, you'll see that I never said that lead acid batteries do not produce hydrogen during discharge. I said they do not vent during discharge. That is the purpose of having a pressure regulating valve in the battery. See figure #4 at...

    The Basic Chemistry of Gas Recombination in Lead-Acid Batteries

    for a SLA test profile showing that pressure only builds (and vents) during charging (even float charging), not during rest or discharging. Technically, since there is a pressure differential, there will be some unmeasurable diffusion through the battery walls, but it would not be enough to worry about in between the normal opening of the unit to recharge. It could be an issue if a scooter with a SLA was left closed/sealed for an abnormally long time.

    As for opening a scooter to recharge, that is for chumps. All our scooters recharge from the outside.

    Cheers,
    Jon Nellis
    Logic Dive Gear

    Hi Jon,
    My apologizes ! I didn't read your post carefully.. You are right about SLA, during normal discharge conditions gas will recombine and wont be vented. Altho in my post I was talking about regular flooded lead acid battery which doesn't have regulating valve, so any hydrogen or oxygen produced will be vented and that is where you will need catalyst :)
    I was messing with you about charging :) I know all your scooters are pretty cool and redefine all the laws of thermodynamics lol
    Cheers, Nick



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  7. #27
    RBW Member Danyboy will become famous soon enough Danyboy will become famous soon enough Danyboy will become famous soon enough Danyboy's Avatar
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    Question Re: Reaching out to owners of a DiveRite Arrow

    Ok, now that the topic of gassing is clear...

    Nick, did you have time for some pictures yet...?

    I'm really eager to see the insides of your Arrow... :)

    Cheers,
    Dany

  8. #28
    Supporting Member nicklinux is an unknown quantity at this point nicklinux's Avatar
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    Darwin mCCR, MK15, Hobo, Flex

    Reaching out to owners of a DiveRite Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by Danyboy  View Original Post
    Ok, now that the topic of gassing is clear...

    Nick, did you have time for some pictures yet...?

    I'm really eager to see the insides of your Arrow... :)

    Cheers,
    Dany

    Dany,
    I'm still out of town, and will be flying back on 18th. Will send you pics as soon as I get back, just wait a little bit longer :)
    Cheers, Nick


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  9. #29
    RBW Member Danyboy will become famous soon enough Danyboy will become famous soon enough Danyboy will become famous soon enough Danyboy's Avatar
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    Cool Re: Reaching out to owners of a DiveRite Arrow

    Nick,

    Thanks a lot!

    Obviously I mis-read your previous post about when you're back, which is why I asked... ;)

    Looking forward to your pics! :)

    Cheers,
    Dany

  10. #30
    RBW Member Danyboy will become famous soon enough Danyboy will become famous soon enough Danyboy will become famous soon enough Danyboy's Avatar
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    Re: Reaching out to owners of a DiveRite Arrow

    And while I wait with the battery-installation, off to another topic, the O-Ring...

    My unit obviously has been stored closed and latched, and now the cross-section of the o-ring looks more like a D or even rectangle...

    When I take the measurements, I end up with an inner diameter of 214mm and a thickness of 4mm for the o-ring.

    I would suppose that original measurements were in inches with those uneven numbers, which is why I would like to ask fellow owners:

    What's the size you guys have used for the o-ring?

    Cheers, Dany

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