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Thread: What Dräger FFM to get for OC and CC?

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    What Dräger FFM to get for OC and CC?

    Okay, i'm a bit lost and thought that if ANYONE can help me it's the guys over at rebreatherworld :)

    So i am just diving OC atm. My doctor recommended me to switch to a FFM (full face mask) for medical reasons and i want to listen to the man. So i'm looking for a open circuit FFM at the moment, BUT i will start with rebreather diving next summer. With that in mind i'd love to use that FFM for both OC AND CC. Right now i am all fired up for the Dräger Panorama Nova Dive. I haven't found many other masks that seem to be adaptable for both uses, plus i just like the looks of the dräger mask the best. Yeah i know, nobody gives a shit if you look cool unterwater, but since the mask seems to be really good anyway i don't see a problem with going for the one that tickles my fancy. If you have some arguments against it or for another mask i'm of course more than willing to change my mind :)

    Now i now that Dräger has a version of the panorama nova dive that is specifically designed to be used with rebreathers. There is also a "sport" version that is meant to be used in an open circuit system. Unfortunately i don't know anyone who's diving that mask and they both look the same to me judging from the pictures.

    So my question (finally!) is this: Can i use it for both OC and CC by changing some parts or would i have to buy two masks? If i could use only one, which version of the mask or which parts should i get to be all set up for my future cc-adventures? And on an (important) sidenote: Does anyone know where i can get solid training for the use of that ffm (preferably in europe close to or in switzerland)?

  2. #2
    RBW Member sailor is on a distinguished road sailor is on a distinguished road sailor's Avatar
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    Re: What Dräger FFM to get for OC and CC?

    Hi,

    the two versions of the Draeger Nova are basically the same.
    The OC version does have a s.c. oral nasal cup with one-way valves.
    The dry gas coming in from the regulator is sweeping over the inside of the lens to prevent fogging. Then the gas is passing thru the one-way valves to the divers mouth or nose. So this version allows nose breathing. The exhaled gas is routed directly from the oral nasal cup to the exhaust valve.
    The CCR version does not have this oral nasal cup but a flexible pipe with a mouthpiece. This pipe is connected to the rebreathers DSV. The diver is holding the mouthpiece with its teeth just like a regular OC regulator. The gas is coming in and going out the same way. There is normally no or very little gas exchange with the masks cavity around the eyes. This is to prevent buildup of CO2.
    Some CCR divers don't mind the possibility of CO2 buildup and use the mask without mouthpiece and flexible hose and without oral nasal just like that. I never did that mainly for the reason of the fogging issue with the moist and warm gas in the CCR loop.
    The two versions are easily convertable if you have all the required parts.

    Hope this helps, feel free to ask more particular questions, Reiner

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    What Dräger FFM to get for OC and CC?

    Don't know about the drager, but I like my KM48-mod1

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    RBW Member huntdive is an unknown quantity at this point huntdive's Avatar
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    Re: What Dräger FFM to get for OC and CC?

    Quote Originally Posted by EngelenD  View Original Post
    Don't know about the drager, but I like my KM48-mod1
    I have both the Drager and KM48-mod1. The KM48-mod1 is nice and the pods make it the most like a mask, easier to clear ears, and bail off the re-breather to an OC reg. You need to stiffen up the internal mouth piece to keep it from collapsing when you suck in on the re-breather to activate the DSV. I've dove this mask a few times 200ft + and I think the WOB is increased when using it.

    The Drager is sweet to have on, smaller profile, with better visibility but I have had challenges getting it adjusted just right to clear my ears, and bailing off the re-breather to OC is more involved than the KM. A lot more cost for the unit about 2.5 times more. I love this mask but I just haven't had the time to work my bugs out yet. I have yet to dive this mask below 100 ft and I don't have an opinion if the WOB is increased or not. I think it will be better than the KM because the mouth piece is a bit shorter and opening is bigger.

    Both are good choices in my opinion.

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    What Dräger FFM to get for OC and CC?

    Quote Originally Posted by huntdive  View Original Post
    I have both the Drager and KM48-mod1. The KM48-mod1 is nice and the pods make it the most like a mask, easier to clear ears, and bail off the re-breather to an OC reg. You need to stiffen up the internal mouth piece to keep it from collapsing when you suck in on the re-breather to activate the DSV. I've dove this mask a few times 200ft + and I think the WOB is increased when using it.

    The Drager is sweet to have on, smaller profile, with better visibility but I have had challenges getting it adjusted just right to clear my ears, and bailing off the re-breather to OC is more involved than the KM. A lot more cost for the unit about 2.5 times more. I love this mask but I just haven't had the time to work my bugs out yet. I have yet to dive this mask below 100 ft and I don't have an opinion if the WOB is increased or not. I think it will be better than the KM because the mouth piece is a bit shorter and opening is bigger.

    Both are good choices in my opinion.
    I have a bungee loop around The pod, works like normal but this keeps the pod from moving and keeps it closer. Shortened the internal mouthpiece just a little and it's it's just fine over the GG shrimp BOV so mine doesn't collapse. I will try the drager one day if I get the opportunity .

    Greets David

  7. #7

    Re: What Dräger FFM to get for OC and CC?

    RBW doesn't disappoint. Thanks a lot, guys. You already helped me a ton.

    The only issue left now is the training. Most of my local diveshops think i am the antichrist for not using a snorkel altough PADI clearly told me to. They also think that rebreathers are made by the devil and even me using a wing instead of a bcd got me a lot of snarky comments.. sigh.. So i guess i wont find much help there.

    But there is a shop in a bigger city near me that offers training on the Dolphin rebreather. Since it is a Dräger product.. well.. maaaaybe they also have the know how when it comes to diving the nova. I'll go check by there tomorrow and ask them. If they can't help me i'll have to keep looking. I don't feel well just buying the damn thing and figuring it out on my own. Sure there will be some kind of manual, but i'd prefer someone doing the necessary drills with me under real conditions until i can do that shit in my sleep :) Am i being overly careful?

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    What Dräger FFM to get for OC and CC?

    You don't use a snorkel ????? Shame On You !!!! I have always one on the shot line at 20m and if I send the pink SMB the boat sends extra support divers with an extra snorkel.

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    Re: What Dräger FFM to get for OC and CC?

    The P-Port on the right side of the Nova fullface mask is where your OC bailout reg attaches, the one on the left side is where your snorkel attaches - did your Nova come with a P-Port snorkel?

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    What Dräger FFM to get for OC and CC?

    I have no experience with the Nova, but plenty with the AGA mask. I have never had a CO2 buildup issue in the oral nasal cup, and the thought of a mouthpiece would make using comms incredibly difficult. The ability to use comms is one of the major safety aspects that made me go toward FFM in the first place.

    So if I were going to get only one mask, it would be the OC version with the cup. The gas flow path will require the use of defogger.


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    Just remember that listening to an idiot such as myself may very well get your arse dead.

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