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Thread: Override depth limitation with CMF.

  1. #21
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    Re: Re: Override depth limitation with CMF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Abbotson  View Original Post
    Needle valve is easy to use either set for max depth or adjust on the fly to minimize deco. After a few hours practice it is no great task loading.
    Can you explain adjusting on the fly to minimize deco?????

    Sent from my PAP4500DUO using Tapatalk 2

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    Re: Override depth limitation with CMF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor P  View Original Post
    Can you explain adjusting on the fly to minimize deco?????

    Sent from my PAP4500DUO using Tapatalk 2
    I can.

    Keep PO2 optimal at all times, without the variations you get when adding O2 manually ( or when waiting to add)

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    Re: Override depth limitation with CMF.B-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Abbotson  View Original Post
    No such thing as zero task loading with a CCR, with an eCCR you are supposed to monitor the electronics all the time to make sure they are functioning correctly and O2 sensors reading correctly (if they are not then the electronics are worth nothing).................
    Thanks. I never knew that!

  4. #24
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    Re: Override depth limitation with CMF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor P  View Original Post
    Can you explain adjusting on the fly to minimize deco?????

    Sent from my PAP4500DUO using Tapatalk 2
    already answered....you can keep a nice constant ppO2 on the ascent phase and also increase in the shallows to reduce deco...of course this will only work with computer with O2 monitoring for deco...when on set points you can just keep it slightly above the set point to be on the safe side.

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    Re: Override depth limitation with CMF.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlovold  View Original Post
    I can.

    Keep PO2 optimal at all times, without the variations you get when adding O2 manually ( or when waiting to add)
    Ahh, yes, I understood completely different.

    But still, how do you manage to keep PO2 optimal (stable) without variations as they are not that much result of manual adition but more result of changes in depth....

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Abbotson  View Original Post
    already answered....you can keep a nice constant ppO2 on the ascent phase and also increase in the shallows to reduce deco...of course this will only work with computer with O2 monitoring for deco...when on set points you can just keep it slightly above the set point to be on the safe side.
    What is different than with CMF? Yes you can vary with flow and track changes in your metabolic consumption of O2, but can you overcome variations from changes in depth.
    I dive CMF, and never dived needle valve.... so my questions... I same use computer with O2 monitoring for the deco.
    Last edited by Igor P; 21st September 2013 at 12:22.

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    Re: Override depth limitation with CMF.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlovold  View Original Post
    I can.

    Keep PO2 optimal at all times, without the variations you get when adding O2 manually ( or when waiting to add)
    In the real world the difference is so minimal as to make no difference.

    Needle valves are good, they dont need 'spin' to sell them

  7. #27
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    Re: Override depth limitation with CMF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor P  View Original Post
    Ahh, yes, I understood completely different.

    But still, how do you manage to keep PO2 optimal (stable) without variations as they are not that much result of manual adition but more result of changes in depth....



    What is different than with CMF? Yes you can vary with flow and track changes in your metabolic consumption of O2, but can you overcome variations from changes in depth.
    I dive CMF, and never dived needle valve.... so my questions... I same use computer with O2 monitoring for the deco.
    The mass flow rate of O2 through the needle valve will increase at 1% per metre down to 90m and then slightly less after that for any given setting. This is with a standard depth compensating O2 2nd stage.
    You can set the needle valve at the start so it gives the correct flow rate at your normal work rate at the maximum depth of the dive OR you can close the needle valve down as you descend. On ascent you do the opposite and open the needle valve up to increase O2 flow.
    A practical example here would be I am swimming around at the bottom or on an ascent and stop to take a photo (or a stationary deco stop) in this case I just close the needle valve a tadge.

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    Re: Override depth limitation with CMF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Abbotson  View Original Post
    The mass flow rate of O2 through the needle valve will increase at 1% per metre down to 90m and then slightly less after that for any given setting. This is with a standard depth compensating O2 2nd stage.
    You can set the needle valve at the start so it gives the correct flow rate at your normal work rate at the maximum depth of the dive OR you can close the needle valve down as you descend. On ascent you do the opposite and open the needle valve up to increase O2 flow.
    A practical example here would be I am swimming around at the bottom or on an ascent and stop to take a photo (or a stationary deco stop) in this case I just close the needle valve a tadge.
    I think I still did not get answer on my question which was:

    "But still, how do you manage to keep PO2 optimal (stable) without variations as they are not that much result of manual adition but more result of changes in depth...."

    Everything else I agree and know from before.... but this (in my question above) I can't understand how it would defer from CMF.

  9. #29
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    Re: Override depth limitation with CMF.

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor P  View Original Post
    I think I still did not get answer on my question which was:

    "But still, how do you manage to keep PO2 optimal (stable) without variations as they are not that much result of manual adition but more result of changes in depth...."

    Everything else I agree and know from before.... but this (in my question above) I can't understand how it would defer from CMF.
    Its really no different from a fixed orifice, it just that it is an adjustable fixed orifice...you basically use the same amount of oxygen at depth as you do on the surface...the PPO2 is kept stable by addition of diluent during descent to keep the loop volume constant. Main advantage of a needle valve is its not depth limited like a CMF with a fixed IP first stage (basically limited to approx 80m which is 9 bar thus no flow occurs). So basically the difference is how the first stage is used in conjunction with the feed system.

  10. #30
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    Re: Override depth limitation with CMF.

    Quote Originally Posted by madvic  View Original Post
    Mike, precisely the idea that I propose is zero task!!! You dive with pre-sets adjustments and behaves like the CMF.
    zero task as in not continually adjusting a needle valve , thats a personal choice , not zero tasking as on the rebreather as a whole thats not going to happen ,lets have no misunderstandings on that point .a CMF or needle valve isnt nessasary on an eccr,it just assists working along side the solenoid , a silent partner so to speak
    mike

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