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Thread: When to FFM?

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    New Member Peter Bomberg is an unknown quantity at this point Peter Bomberg's Avatar
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    Question When to FFM?

    I know that I am eventually switching to a FFM (likely the nova) due to the underwater comm capability (my wife will sit in the catamaran while I enjoy the dive (typically 30-40M).

    The question is until then should I wait and stay with a normal mask or start on a FFM?

    Benefits/Downsides, thoughts, tips, etc.. are welcome and sought.

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    Re: When to FFM?

    I don't understand the question. Are you diving a CCR now? Or are you planning to go CCR and also FFM? If it's the latter, then it would be very helpful to get FFM experience on OC before you go CCR, and also CCR experience before you go FFM. But there is a problem in that the masks are different. The Nova for OC includes an oral nasal cup while the CCR version does not. I don't know if you can convert the OC one to CCR.
    Ken

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    New Member Peter Bomberg is an unknown quantity at this point Peter Bomberg's Avatar
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    Re: When to FFM?

    Hi Ken, currently I am an OC diver but switching this year and I am thinking that I might just switch both so it's a steeper learning curve but a known factor, also the main reason for the FFM is underwater to surface communication in the future for me and that is only a factor on the CCR so iI dont expect to use a FFM with the OC.

    However I have to admit I am not 100% sure what the benefits of a FFM are so thoughts are welcome there!

    Peter

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    Re: When to FFM?

    Hi Peter, My suggestion is to learn to dive the unit and once you have a good feel for what you're doing with it then add the FFM. Starting off with a new unit and an FFM is a lot of work and can lead to over task loading.

    Regards,

    Lance

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    Re: When to FFM?

    There hasn't been much posted lately, but here are some threads about FFM use with CCR. Should make for some good intro reading.

    http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showthread.php?t=22147

    http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showthread.php?t=32654

    http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showthread.php?t=37919

    http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showthread.php?t=40172

    http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showthread.php?t=40690

    http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showthread.php?t=41916

    http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showthread.php?t=35932

    As for your issues, there are some concerns. First, I don't think you will find an instructor who will do your initial CCR training on FFM. And I don't think it is appropriate. You need to learn and get comfortable with your system and then add things like BOV and FFM. Don't be in a rush.

    As for comms, that is an issue in itself. I think comms are one of the major safety factors in using a FFM, even on OC. But it presents a complication with CCR. There are definitely 2 opposing camps when it comes to the use of oral nasal cups vs. bite piece. And using comms with a bite piece is not easy.

    In general, the safety features of FFM on OC carry through to CCR, but add more complication as well. Read through the above threads and think about it for a while.

    And I now see that Lance chimed in while I was typing. He probably has more FFM experience than anyone active on this board. But his views about using comms are just plain wrong.
    Last edited by kwinter; 14th July 2013 at 09:02.
    Ken

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    Re: When to FFM?

    I was seriously considering a FFM for myself... until the one time I threw up on the surface. Adds a lot of complexity.

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    New Member Peter Bomberg is an unknown quantity at this point Peter Bomberg's Avatar
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    Re: When to FFM?

    Thanks Lance that makes sense, I sort of figured I rather invest the $ and hours into my ideal config, but I can see the merit of the interim step (even though it may mean a bit of throwaway equipment)

    Thanks Ken, I read all the info provided and based on the reading I will have to do some more research regarding the bite piece aspect and also how do I deal with my glasses? (my OC mask has prescription lenses in it). So I know the model and the benefits now and am convinced one is in the future but for now I will stay with a normal mask.

    And I tend to agree with the comments that once you train (and practice enough the extra connections etc, should not cause task overloading (it's the same when you add any new gear to your kit, you just have to practice until you can do it without really thinking)

    But for now I know what to do.

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    Re: When to FFM?

    There is a spectacle accessory for the AGA & Guardian masks, available from any dealer. There was something posted about a similar kit for the Nova last year. http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showthread.php?t=42330
    Ken

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsix36  View Original Post
    Just remember that listening to an idiot such as myself may very well get your arse dead.

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    RBW Member sjk is an unknown quantity at this point sjk's Avatar
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    Re: When to FFM?

    There was an interesting discussion on this at RF3. If you take a look at the summary on youtube here and in particular listen from 1h 24 minutes you can hear Jill Hienherth, Tom Mount and others talk about the pros and cons of FFM. Tom's experience of dealing with a caustic cocktail with a FFM really made me think about some of the downsides.

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    Re: When to FFM?

    But if you can already see the path ahead you can make gear descisions now that will get you to your eventual goal. You can use your FFM plan to help pick a BOV or it might even influence your unit selection.

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