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Thread: Mk vi fatality - portugal

  1. #31
    RBW Member bmwgsboy will become famous soon enough bmwgsboy will become famous soon enough bmwgsboy will become famous soon enough bmwgsboy's Avatar
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    Re: Mk vi fatality - portugal

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt.garry  View Original Post
    My condolences to his family.

    Plain and simple diver error

    To blame the manufacture is just anger because your friend is gone. I do not think Poseidon ever intended on someone going for a dive with no scrubber.

    Check-lists, rest, and proper mindset when it comes to CCR diving could have prevented this accident.

    I dive several RBs including the MKVI and we as instructors, drive it in to the head of our students always assemble and check your own units!
    +1

  2. #32
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    Mk vi fatality - portugal

    Deepest condolences for the loss as well from my side. Every rebreather fatality is one too much. But that being said and with all due respect to the victim, family and friends I do agree as well that accidents also fatal ones need to be discussed to be able to learn about the causes to avoid them in the future! We can't afford to keep this secret and turn this into a taboo.

    As far as Poseidon is concerned, I don't think anyone is blaming them for any mistakes made by the diver, ie not using checklists, out of whatever cause. The problem I always had with Poseidon as well is their marketing using phrases like"fail-safe rebreather" "Safer and easier to use (than OC)" this is simply untrue and can mislead especially rebreather newbies. Now this is different from saying the Poseidon rebreather is a unsafe unit!!!!
    I do actually believe properly used within its given limits it is actually a good unit and as safe or dangerous to use as other units out there!
    But if the MKIV would indeed be fail safe it would not allow to use it without putting in the scrubber cartridge and/or a pre breath sequence...

    Cheers

    Christian


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

  3. #33
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    Re: Mk vi fatality - portugal

    Quote Originally Posted by CFU  View Original Post
    Deepest condolences for the loss as well from my side. Every rebreather fatality is one too much. But that being said and with all due respect to the victim, family and friends I do agree as well that accidents also fatal ones need to be discussed to be able to learn about the causes to avoid them in the future! We can't afford to keep this secret and turn this into a taboo.

    As far as Poseidon is concerned, I don't think anyone is blaming them for any mistakes made by the diver, ie not using checklists, out of whatever cause. The problem I always had with Poseidon as well is their marketing using phrases like"fail-safe rebreather" "Safer and easier to use (than OC)" this is simply untrue and can mislead especially rebreather newbies. Now this is different from saying the Poseidon rebreather is a unsafe unit!!!!
    I do actually believe properly used within its given limits it is actually a good unit and as safe or dangerous to use as other units out there!
    But if the MKIV would indeed be fail safe it would not allow to use it without putting in the scrubber cartridge and/or a pre breath sequence...

    Cheers

    Christian


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
    +1 no matter how fail safe you make a breathers,cars,children's toys,ex,
    There will allways be someone to make a mistake using them.
    Has far has idiot proof rebreathers some are discussing hear,there is no such thing
    And never will be.you can have double even triple redondoncy units I guaranty
    Someone will find a way to mess up. Like my fellow workers say it is what it is,
    I know it sou fs easy to preach use checklists allways know your po2, allways keep your cell up to date and validate them, even if you are taskloading(working to much).last week I dumped out both my scrubbers (Revo) after a short dive because one of my buddies put my unit on is back, they it was prettymu h bone dry but is 5bucks worth for sorb. Is it worth saving?? Is it worth borrowing a unit and not going thru the whole thing??

  4. #34
    RBW Member Duskdiver is an unknown quantity at this point Duskdiver's Avatar
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    Re: Mk vi fatality - portugal

    My condolences to his family, first of all.
    I am new on the forum.
    What I find astonishing is that people talk about the checks, CO2 sensors, "he should have noticed a buoyancy change", the human factor...etc..
    No one seems to notice the fact that he was found underwater by other divers , this means he was diving by himself.
    Why no one brings this up?

  5. #35
    RBW Member bmwgsboy will become famous soon enough bmwgsboy will become famous soon enough bmwgsboy will become famous soon enough bmwgsboy's Avatar
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    Re: Mk vi fatality - portugal

    Quote Originally Posted by Duskdiver  View Original Post
    My condolences to his family, first of all.
    I am new on the forum.
    What I find astonishing is that people talk about the checks, CO2 sensors, "he should have noticed a buoyancy change", the human factor...etc..
    No one seems to notice the fact that he was found underwater by other divers , this means he was diving by himself.
    Why no one brings this up?
    He was setting a anchor standard practice on dive boats.
    Question you should be asking is why when he couldent get down kept asking for more weight. Don't know about you but unless I change underwear or go into a wet suit, I would have picked up on it that something was wrong as far as buoyancy goes.
    Last edited by bmwgsboy; 27th April 2013 at 14:07.

  6. #36
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    Re: Mk vi fatality - portugal

    Quote Originally Posted by bmwgsboy  View Original Post
    He was setting a anchor standard practice on dive boats.
    Question you should be asking is why when he couldent get down kept asking for more weight. Don't know about you but unless I change underwear or go into a wet suit, I would have picked up on it that something was wrong as far as bouncy goes.
    Standard practice on boats ?...what ? what does that have to do with diving alone, why no one else could do that with him? ???????

  7. #37
    RBW Member Diveratt is on a distinguished road Diveratt is on a distinguished road Diveratt's Avatar
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    Re: Mk vi fatality - portugal

    Quote Originally Posted by bmwgsboy  View Original Post
    He was setting a anchor standard practice on dive boats.
    Question you should be asking is why when he couldent get down kept asking for more weight. Don't know about you but unless I change underwear or go into a wet suit, I would have picked up on it that something was wrong as far as buoyancy goes.
    All very good if your thinking straight but add the stress, lack of sleep, lack of experience on the unit, a couple of customers breathing down your neck. and you will revert to what you do OC without thinking about it.

    Rebreathers are not the right tool for the job if your diving stressed

  8. #38
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    Re: Mk vi fatality - portugal

    Quote Originally Posted by Diveratt  View Original Post
    All very good if your thinking straight but add the stress, lack of sleep, lack of experience on the unit, a couple of customers breathing down your neck. and you will revert to what you do OC without thinking about it.

    Rebreathers are not the right tool for the job if your diving stressed
    I agree but unfortunately the diver didn't think that.
    Still no excuse.its like driving drunk you never think it will happen to you until you wakeup in a hospital ( one of my friends).
    Last edited by bmwgsboy; 27th April 2013 at 14:31.

  9. #39
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    Re: Mk vi fatality - portugal

    Quote Originally Posted by Diveratt  View Original Post
    All very good if your thinking straight but add the stress, lack of sleep, lack of experience on the unit, a couple of customers breathing down your neck. and you will revert to what you do OC without thinking about it.

    Rebreathers are not the right tool for the job if your diving stressed
    Thatīs the ANSWER... our brain is a tricky machine...

    Iīve seen lotīs of times this situation occuring, under stress and big task load, experient OC divers diving CCR tend to revert to the OC thinking not even nowing it...ie a friend very experient OC and CCR diver went on an expedition to dive a wreck at 75 m in very cold water. It was the only possible dive allowed in that wreck given the bad weather they got and the slot they had from the authorities (wreck is a war grave). During decend he had water getting into his mask (small drops) but anoying and constant...he chose not to change mask underwater to avoid a possible blocage due to cold water in face and not to lose dive time...instead started to purge his mask while exploring the wreck ay 75m...sudenly he was without any DIL on his CCR....
    He made it safely due to his buddy, but was a close call...
    Again a "stupid mistake" ?? No a brain trick reverting to OC dur to stress and task load...and distraction
    Murphy is always on the look out...

  10. #40
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    Re: Mk vi fatality - portugal

    Quote Originally Posted by Capt.garry  View Original Post
    My condolences to his family.

    Plain and simple diver error

    To blame the manufacture is just anger because your friend is gone. I do not think Poseidon ever intended on someone going for a dive with no scrubber.

    Check-lists, rest, and proper mindset when it comes to CCR diving could have prevented this accident.

    I dive several RBs including the MKVI and we as instructors, drive it in to the head of our students always assemble and check your own units!
    I agree with the diver error conclusion but I am not aware of any other rebreather manufacturer other than Poseidon who's marketing hype includes words like simpler and safer.
    At RF3 PADI's Mark Caney actually made the claim the Poseidon was so automated that no written checklist was needed.
    Perhaps it was this type of mindset provided by the marketing hype that led the unfortunate victim to believe he could get away with diving the unit while sleep deprived and without proper checklists.
    Circling the wagons around the company or the victim serve no purpose if the goal is to help prevent future accidents. Full disclosure and discovery is the only way we are ever going to get the education we need to reduce the risks of CCR diving.
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

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