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Thread: Lymphatic Bends

  1. #1
    Tor Aadnevik Totto is an unknown quantity at this point Totto's Avatar
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    Lymphatic Bends

    Hi all,
    I’m looking for information about what I’m told is lymphatic bends.

    During the last 18 months I’ve had four bends. They have all manifested on the right upper arm/shoulder with a rash/ blueness in the skin. After a while the skin turns hard to touch and is sore.
    The dives have all been in the 60m range and have been untreated since the symptoms are rater trifling.

    Apparently lymphatic bends are rare and most often associated with saturation diving?
    Anyone knows if these symptoms can be from anything else but bubble formation e.g. Reaction to oxygen, Infection in the body e.g. RSI?
    It’s hard to come to terms with that diving at these depths probably is over for me L
    I have added the profile and a couple of pictures from the last dive that ended with a hit. The dive was GF 30/70 with both onboard and standalone deco with SP 1.2 and the dive at approx.. 1.3.
    Stops on both computers where done.

    Some facts:
    Age: 47
    Height: 192cm
    Weight: was 114Kg but lately have increased training so hoping for 100kg soon.
    Rebreather: Megalodon Copis
    Did a PFO test last year that was negative.


    Suggestions to what I can change are welcome thanks.

    Tor





    Attached Images
    Last edited by Totto; 11th February 2012 at 14:52. Reason: added PFO test

  2. #2
    Richie Burr diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb's Avatar
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    Re: Lymphatic Bends

    I get that on a fairly regular basis during the dive season, as does a friend of mine. There seems to be no rhyme or reason as to when it occurs. We have tried to pinpoint possible causes, but there are none we can come up with. It just appears to be random. Sometimes very mild and gone the next day. Other times it lingers for a few days and is more severe. Depth, time, frequency of diving, ascent rates, deco stops and times all seem to have no correlation as to when it occurs.

    The majority of my dives are between 90' - 150' (27m - 46m) and I don't do extremely long dives and usually don't do repetitive dives. Cold water & drysuit dives with the exception of a little warm water diving.

    Seems not to be too much information out there on this....

    Richie

  3. #3
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    Re: Lymphatic Bends

    Hi Tor,

    Hanssing (with the rEvo from Ubådsmassakren).
    I also get skin bends like those, mostly I get them while doing multiple dives on a day.

    I got them on signletank nitrox using a Quantum.
    I got them on CCR using X1-VPM on conservatism 5
    And now I have switched to GF using a predator and set it to 70.30 like yours. I now rarely get skinbends, but get niggles in my wrists if I do a long cold TriMix.

    IMO it is DCS, and it seems that when people starts getting it, their conservatism has to go WAY up in order to avoid it. I have seen some loal divers on Cochrans doing *CRAZY* stuff, but then one of them got it. And now no matter what he has to hang as long as me to avoid it.

    IMO you just have to get really good at deco

    Hanssing

  4. #4
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    Re: Lymphatic Bends

    I get those exact same symptoms usually after multiple decompression dives. I always just chalked it up to physical stress and kept diving. I would be very interested if someone could come up with an explaination.
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

  5. #5
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    Re: Lymphatic Bends

    A lymphatic bend is when bubbles block the lymphatic system causing lymphedema. You can get symptoms of other bends too, such as skin bends or CNS events; its just one manifestation of the same problem: lots of post dive bubbling.

    It was considered rare because the surveys were done on young Navy divers, its not uncommon in sport diving were divers are older 40 y/o +, older the more likely it will happen; I see it once a year. It is the last item to resolve after the rash and usually gives no issue other than the swelling.

    In the photo included, its best to show the other arm to make relative comparisons. There are 2 cases with photos in DAR archives.


    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/diving...unt=20&dir=asc


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    RBW Member Liquid Pleasure is an unknown quantity at this point Liquid Pleasure's Avatar
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    Re: Lymphatic Bends

    I have had this the last time I dove. Mild red skin, warm to the touch like sunburn and itchy. Located around my left shoulder. The itching stopped after 2 hours.

    I did seven days of straight diving with deco diving during the first few days and up to three dives per day. The last dive gave me those symptoms. I was working pretty hard underwater. I was also exercising at the end of the day after every dive which I knew was a no no. Now I know to ratchet things down a little.

  7. #7
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    Re: Lymphatic Bends

    I too have suffered the same during OC diving, yet haven't had any while CCR diving and have done mulitple deep dives with deco to 160 range. The first time I thought my drysuit had pinched me in a few spots on my front and rear armpit area. The marks were gone the next day and didnt cause any irritation or anything. The second time it happened it went down my back, very itchy tingle. Both dives were during summer months water temps 60-65 degrees.

    My dive buddy and I on both dives used the same mixes, back gas and deco ran the same profiles on deco time and yet he didn't have any symptoms. I remember him laughing because it happened both times while diving with him. Knowing we all metabolize and dissipate gasses differently our bodies just react differently to stress and diving from one another.

    Found this tib bit on skin bends....
    Skin Bends or Cutaneous Decompression Sickness - Skin Bends Information for Scuba Divers
    Last edited by RSmith; 12th February 2012 at 03:18.

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    Re: Lymphatic Bends

    I had a lymphatic bed in 04

    It manifested itself with VERY pronounced swelling through out my torso and chest, pain in my stomach, increased heart rate and extreme fatigue. It was very hard to diagnose as the symptoms were across the board and didn't manifest themselves in the traditional manner. After a delayed treatment all my symptoms were resolved with one chamber ride.

    I attributed it to being exceptionally cold on the dive and high exertion. Since that dive I have increased my HE%, Started deco deeper, as well as rethought out my thermal protection. I also bring a scooter if I suspect ill be swimming much at all.

    What I learnt was, decompression illness doesn't manifest itself in a tidy little flow chart. You need to be able to see the big picture and don't get blinded by the detail.

    Cam

  9. #9
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    Re: Lymphatic Bends

    my two cents worth: get a check for a PFO. i use to get what you have, now i don't since i got my PFO closed. i know this is not the cure for all, but for me it was/is.
    good luck
    contact me if you want my inside experience with getting the PFO found and fixed
    scubagrunt@gmail.com
    mel

  10. #10
    Richie Burr diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb has much to be proud of diverreb's Avatar
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    Re: Lymphatic Bends

    Quote Originally Posted by scubagrunt  View Original Post
    my two cents worth: get a check for a PFO. i use to get what you have, now i don't since i got my PFO closed. i know this is not the cure for all, but for me it was/is.
    good luck
    contact me if you want my inside experience with getting the PFO found and fixed
    scubagrunt@gmail.com
    mel
    I was checked for a PFO a while ago and didn't have one.

    OC or CC, Nitrox or Trimix.... Doesn't seem to matter.

    Richie
    Last edited by diverreb; 12th February 2012 at 11:52.

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