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Thread: Raid

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    RBW Member Raymond Li is an unknown quantity at this point Raymond Li's Avatar
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    Smile Raid

    Hi

    Has anyone any experience with the training agency RAID?
    Understand they train with Poseidon MK6

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    Re: Raid

    Hi Raymond,

    When I purchased the MkVI, I looked into the different learning agencies. RAID is a tree step Education. All theory is web based (as I understood it).

    Since I have bad experience with the PADI On Line training (did my AOW by e-learning, and learned that it is not as near as a good instructor).
    Therefore I went with PADI, since they have teacher taught theory. Of course, a course is never as good as the instructor. But i can say that my course has been very nice and I have learned alot from my instructor.
    Last edited by Jeppe_E; 11th January 2012 at 13:03.

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    RBW Member Raymond Li is an unknown quantity at this point Raymond Li's Avatar
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    Smile Re: Raid

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeppe_E  View Original Post
    Hi Raymond,

    When I purchased the MkVI, I looked into the different learning agencies. RAID is a tree step Education. All theory is web based (as I understood it).

    Since I have bad experience with the PADI On Line training (did my AOW by e-learning, and learned that it is not as near as a good instructor).
    Therefore I went with PADI, since they have teacher taught theory. Of course, a course is never as good as the instructor. But i can say that my course has been very nice and I have learned alot from my instructor.
    Hi Jeppe

    I have more or less sorted out everything except the training agency. RAID is the only user friendly agency who advocates rebreather training in a very user friendly and convenient way I can see. TDI and similar for example asks for Advanced Nitrox and some even Deco Procedures. Theory maybe on line but in water training is still under an instructor. The ultimate result is theory and water skills given to the trainee by any agency but he has to dive to gain experience and the sooner he does it the better. Sitting in classroom or in front of computer online and reading notes after notes and doing that short spell in the pool and open water under supervision is good but not enough. He has to dive and to dive shallow and conservatively. Finally the diver is still the one who controls the rebreather set. If he does not understand how to then better not dive it.

    Actually seeing all these agencies asking for this and that to have before diving the rebreather and instructors charging highing some exhorbitant fees makes mw want to drop all this rebreather and be contented with normal diving. I just wonder...

    So I don't know really if training with a well known named agency makes the difference.

    Thats my 2cents worth of thoughts.

  4. #4
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    Re: Raid

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Li  View Original Post
    Hi Jeppe

    I have more or less sorted out everything except the training agency. RAID is the only user friendly agency who advocates rebreather training in a very user friendly and convenient way I can see. TDI and similar for example asks for Advanced Nitrox and some even Deco Procedures. Theory maybe on line but in water training is still under an instructor. The ultimate result is theory and water skills given to the trainee by any agency but he has to dive to gain experience and the sooner he does it the better. Sitting in classroom or in front of computer online and reading notes after notes and doing that short spell in the pool and open water under supervision is good but not enough. He has to dive and to dive shallow and conservatively. Finally the diver is still the one who controls the rebreather set. If he does not understand how to then better not dive it.

    Actually seeing all these agencies asking for this and that to have before diving the rebreather and instructors charging highing some exhorbitant fees makes mw want to drop all this rebreather and be contented with normal diving. I just wonder...

    So I don't know really if training with a well known named agency makes the difference.

    Thats my 2cents worth of thoughts.
    Raymond, maybe some useful advice: go for a try-dive on a rebreather: this way you will have a better idea of what is needed for good rebreather training.

    Paul
    www.rEvo-rebreathers.com
    ...."Yes you have to pre-breathe to activate the scrubber sorb, anyone who says different doesn't know what they are talking about!"...
    .... to get more accurate CO2 injection in the breathing machine we put 2 mass flow controllers in series ...
    .... The noise is a few tens of nano-volts, so DL were able to reduce the output voltage ...
    .... radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
    .... the earth is flat and ...

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    Re: Raid

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Li  View Original Post
    Hi Jeppe

    I have more or less sorted out everything except the training agency. RAID is the only user friendly agency who advocates rebreather training in a very user friendly and convenient way I can see. TDI and similar for example asks for Advanced Nitrox and some even Deco Procedures.

    Yes, Well TDI and similar are more for Type T CCR, hence the need for Adv Nitrox and Deco. Since the MkVI is a non deco unit in it's simplest form, those agancies are not the correct choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Li  View Original Post
    Hi Jeppe

    Theory maybe on line but in water training is still under an instructor. The ultimate result is theory and water skills given to the trainee by any agency but he has to dive to gain experience and the sooner he does it the better. Sitting in classroom or in front of computer online and reading notes after notes and doing that short spell in the pool and open water under supervision is good but not enough. He has to dive and to dive shallow and conservatively. Finally the diver is still the one who controls the rebreather set. If he does not understand how to then better not dive it.
    True, but I think this is different from person to person. Some like to read it, others like to hear it first, then read it. It''s my personal opinion that a teacher taught theory lesson is more valuable then an e-learning. This, because you learn other things that are not mentioned neither in the book or the e-learning. Again, very instructor dependent. A good instructor will provide you with a good base to stand on. I have done some 12-14 hours of theory and then some 5 hours on the machine. Going to do another 2 hours this weekend and then end the courses with another 2 hours. So, some 9 hours on the machine to complete both PADI Courses. Minimum dive time is set to 7,5 hours by PADI

    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond Li  View Original Post
    Hi Jeppe

    Actually seeing all these agencies asking for this and that to have before diving the rebreather and instructors charging highing some exhorbitant fees makes mw want to drop all this rebreather and be contented with normal diving. I just wonder...

    So I don't know really if training with a well known named agency makes the difference.
    Neither PADI or RAID ask for anything extraordinary. For the PADI Course, you need EANx certification, which for obvious reasons are a must, since you are diving Nitrox any given time of the dive. At 12-13 meters, the MkVI is on pO2 1.2 and thereby you are breathing EANx 50. An EANx certification is "included" in RAID Course.

    No, a well known named agency doesnt do any difference, the instructor does :)
    Last edited by Jeppe_E; 11th January 2012 at 14:00.

  6. #6
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    Re: Raid

    TDI does not require deco procedures for air diluent no decompression rebreather diver level. Any student I have ever trained who showed up with a PADI nitrox card has required remedial training to complete CCR training becausethe PADI program does not properly prepare a diver to understand partial pressure laws to the extent required to understand CCR theory.
    Rebreathers can be very unforgiving and I certainly can't imaging why cost of training would be a consideration when choosing a course of instruction. If you can't afford it you should stay on open circuit.
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

  7. #7
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    Re: Raid

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post
    TDI does not require deco procedures for air diluent no decompression rebreather diver level. Any student I have ever trained who showed up with a PADI nitrox card has required remedial training to complete CCR training becausethe PADI program does not properly prepare a diver to understand partial pressure laws to the extent required to understand CCR theory.
    Rebreathers can be very unforgiving and I certainly can't imaging why cost of training would be a consideration when choosing a course of instruction. If you can't afford it you should stay on open circuit.

    But It must be so, that fully understanding pO2 must be something you learn in an CCR course, any CCR course. PADI EANx teaches you the basic, to go to 30/40 meter. Since the EANx certificate is for mixtures up to 40% I dont see a conflict here. First rule you learn in RB diving, Always know your pO2.

  8. #8
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    Well if you have ever seen the blank stares when you draw the Dalton triangle on the board from specifically PADI trained nitrox divers you would understand
    A good nitrox course can be taught by any good instructor. It is silly teaching material in a CCR course that every nitrox diver should already know.
    And yes you are right basic nitrox is for up to 40% and that is why advanced nitrox is a prerequisite for CCR training.
    PADI as an agency has dumbed down dive training across the board and so it continues with CCR diving.
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

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    Re: Raid

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post
    Rebreathers can be very unforgiving and I certainly can't imaging why cost of training would be a consideration when choosing a course of instruction.
    You know Dave, we don't always agree, but on this one, for 100%

    (at least, as long as the price reflects the quality of the course given by the quality instructor, if not, it is indeed 'overpriced')
    www.rEvo-rebreathers.com
    ...."Yes you have to pre-breathe to activate the scrubber sorb, anyone who says different doesn't know what they are talking about!"...
    .... to get more accurate CO2 injection in the breathing machine we put 2 mass flow controllers in series ...
    .... The noise is a few tens of nano-volts, so DL were able to reduce the output voltage ...
    .... radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
    .... the earth is flat and ...

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    Re: Raid

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post
    Well if you have ever seen the blank stares when you draw the Dalton triangle on the board from specifically PADI trained nitrox divers you would understand
    A good nitrox course can be taught by any good instructor. It is silly teaching material in a CCR course that every nitrox diver should already know.
    And yes you are right basic nitrox is for up to 40% and that is why advanced nitrox is a prerequisite for CCR training.
    PADI as an agency has dumbed down dive training across the board and so it continues with CCR diving.
    Absolutely 100% correct. I did the PADI 40% Nitrox course and it was absolute garbage... Unfortunately I did not realize how bad it was until I completed the TDI Advanced Nitrox (O2 to 100%).

    Quality of dive training and instructor does make for better divers.

    Dwayne

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