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Thread: Rethinking bailout

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    So Cal Tech Diver aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie's Avatar
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    Meg

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    Rethinking bailout

    Excuse the cross posts, those of you who use other boards.

    I recently had an interesting experience that Iwrote up for the NACD journal. They just gave me permission to repost a link. It's on my website at:

    Index of /documents

    Look for the one starting "Rethinking bailout..."

    Please think carefully before going light on bailout. Let me tell you, the moment when I had to hold my breath and consider my options was one of the scariest of my life.
    Andrew Ainslie

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    Re: Rethinking bailout

    Kudos. Green sent. It's always tough in bailout planning to know what the terror-adjustment is on a SAC rate. I guess the takeaway is that stress begets brainfarts, so while you think you'll only breathe hard for the first x minutes then settle back to your normal SAC rate, the risk is that you keep breathing hard till back on dry land.

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    Re: Rethinking bailout

    Do you think you've highlighted the possibility that a buddy might have been able to restore equilibrium?

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    Re: Rethinking bailout

    Andrew,

    Thanks ever so much for sharing Your story, Hats off To You!!

    That was probably the worse scariest Dive of Your time? what You outlined is sinking into my head, although im not Cave trained yet, i for sure will take onboard what You have went through..

    Thanks again

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    Re: Rethinking bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by osiris  View Original Post
    Do you think you've highlighted the possibility that a buddy might have been able to restore equilibrium?
    +1
    First thing I thought when I read the article as well.
    A buddy will not only help to keep your head straight, but with a buddy you've also just doubled the bailout gas (unless you subscribe to team BO).

    From the article:
    The key to surviving an incident such as the one that I had just encountered is to SLOW
    DOWN and THINK!
    Excellent advice. When stressed, I actually try to do absolutely nothing until I take 5 deep cleansing breaths. It not only forces slowing down, but it also helps to flush built up CO2 and ultimately helps to clear the head.

    In hindsight Andrew, do you think you might have built up some CO2 while negotiating those restrictions on your exit?

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    Re: Rethinking bailout

    Thanks for sharing.

    John

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    Re: Rethinking bailout

    Good story, thanks for telling it.

    If I work out correctly you say your RMV was about 4x during the episode, that's high, and is what I have always assumed (but not experienced).

    Make me laugh how many people take 2x80's (11L) on a deep gas dive as bailout and assume this will be enough.

    Cheers
    Matt.

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    So Cal Tech Diver aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie's Avatar
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    Re: Rethinking bailout

    The buddy issue gets asked of me a lot. Buddies can be as much a hindrance as a help on dives like these. THere are long periods of doing little while trying to negotiate restrictions, and long periods of minimal comunications. Plus, I have to turn early about 30% of the time. With two divers you would be successful (1-.3)^2, or about 50% of the time. Overall on small gnarly extended dives it's common to do them solo as a result - buddies just slow each other down too much.

    No idea what was happening on the CO2 side.
    Last edited by aainslie; 14th December 2010 at 14:55.
    Andrew Ainslie

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    GF 35-50/70-85 = Mend and Mend

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    Re: Rethinking bailout

    Scary...
    Thanks for sharing!!

    Will pay attention how such issues will be treatd by my instructor in my Full cave class in June of the coming year..

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    Re: Rethinking bailout

    Quote Originally Posted by matthewoutram  View Original Post
    If I work out correctly you say your RMV was about 4x during the episode, that's high, and is what I have always assumed (but not experienced).

    Make me laugh how many people take 2x80's (11L) on a deep gas dive as bailout and assume this will be enough.
    Well I could imagine that a deep penetration in an OHE is pushing quite a higher level of stress potential than an OC bailout situation..
    In OC so far (which is the only diving I do have something some could possibly cal a little experience, whereas OHE min is non existant, as I don't consider my Wreck "smimmthroughs" as experience for that) I feel comfortable calculating with 30l/min and the redundancy of a buudy so in a "teambailout-perspective" there would be 60l/min available..
    And this article would not change that perspective now..

    From my own experience I can however slightly follow the stress level being induced by thinking of being "potentially" low on Gas for what lies beforehead of getting to the surface again.. I did a dive with an isntructor once, who is more on the less I need to carry the better side in B/O planning, since he says why would I be diving a breather then. Thus the B/O planning was quite tight for my perception. I only did the dive because of the comfort being with an instructor..
    In fact I did get a problem on the dive that I had to bail out.. Fortunately only after already reaching the last third of max depth towards the end of the dive, however still having almot the full deco obligation left..
    We were in Open Water still quite away from the boat. I felt a bit sick (the reason for bailing out, original cause not being relevant for the point I am aiming for) and I knew that our B/O planning was for 20l/min enough for each of us (so with Buddies BO double - 40 l/min was possible) but taking into consideration the Decostations (Boat's) Gas supply at 6m! This fu** stressed me out in that situation as we should have reached the boat at that time already so I did not know if we were going to eventually reach it or not. And if we did not reach it that I def. would need the buddies BO even when my SAC would stay within normal levels.. Needless to say that this didn't help much. Towards the end of the dive what "mentally" saved me was that I did try to get back on the breather to check whether my sickness would not further increase, thus I at least had enough gas adn at least was streching the remaining gas in my BO tank..
    So in a BO situation having to worry whether the gas supply was significant or not is the last I do want ever to experience again.

    My lesson learned from that dive was, that no matter for the buddy I do want to take as much BO gas with me as I and only I feel comfortable with and not what anybody else would think or gaggling about

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