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Thread: bailout mode

  1. #1
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    bailout mode

    I am having trouble how bailout mode works in v-planner. Before this option was available I would plan bailout like this:

    V-Planner 3.87 by Ross Hemingway,
    VPM code by Erik C. Baker.

    Decompression model: VPM - B

    DIVE PLAN
    Surface interval = 1 day 0 hr 0 min.
    Elevation = 0ft
    Conservatism = + 2

    Dec to 200ft (4) Diluent 14/55 1.20 SetPoint, 50ft/min descent.
    Dec to 240ft (4) Diluent 14/55 1.20 SetPoint, 60ft/min descent.
    Level 240ft 15:20 (20) Diluent 14/55 1.20 SetPoint, 74ft ead, 90ft end
    Asc to 200ft (20) Trimix 14/55 -100ft/min ascent.
    Asc to 170ft (21) Trimix 14/55 -30ft/min ascent.
    Stop at 160ft 0:36 (22) Trimix 14/55 0.82 ppO2, 43ft ead, 54ft end
    Stop at 150ft 1:00 (23) Trimix 14/55 0.78 ppO2, 39ft ead, 49ft end
    Stop at 140ft 1:00 (24) Trimix 14/55 0.73 ppO2, 35ft ead, 45ft end
    Stop at 130ft 1:00 (25) Trimix 14/55 0.69 ppO2, 31ft ead, 40ft end
    Stop at 120ft 1:00 (26) Trimix 14/55 0.65 ppO2, 27ft ead, 36ft end
    Stop at 110ft 2:00 (28) Trimix 14/55 0.61 ppO2, 23ft ead, 31ft end
    Stop at 100ft 3:00 (31) Trimix 14/55 0.56 ppO2, 19ft ead, 27ft end
    Stop at 90ft 3:00 (34) Trimix 14/55 0.52 ppO2, 15ft ead, 22ft end
    Stop at 80ft 3:00 (37) Trimix 14/55 0.48 ppO2, 11ft ead, 18ft end
    Stop at 70ft 2:00 (39) Nitrox 50 1.56 ppO2, 32ft ead
    Stop at 60ft 3:00 (42) Nitrox 50 1.41 ppO2, 26ft ead
    Stop at 50ft 3:00 (45) Nitrox 50 1.26 ppO2, 20ft ead
    Stop at 40ft 5:00 (50) Nitrox 50 1.10 ppO2, 13ft ead
    Stop at 30ft 7:00 (57) Nitrox 50 0.95 ppO2, 7ft ead
    Stop at 20ft 10:00 (67) Nitrox 50 0.80 ppO2, 1ft ead
    Stop at 10ft 20:00 (87) Nitrox 50 0.65 ppO2, 0ft ead
    Surface (87) Nitrox 50 -30ft/min ascent.

    Off gassing starts at 195.5ft

    OTU's this dive: 70
    CNS Total: 26.9%

    39.6 cu ft Trimix 14/55
    44.2 cu ft Nitrox 50
    83.7 cu ft OC TOTAL

    Now the same dive using bailout mode

    DIVE PLAN - BailOut
    Surface interval = 1 day 0 hr 0 min.
    Elevation = 0ft
    Conservatism = + 3

    Dec to 200ft (4) Diluent 14/55 1.20 SetPoint, 50ft/min descent.
    Dec to 240ft (4) Diluent 14/55 1.20 SetPoint, 60ft/min descent.
    Level 240ft 15:20 (20) Diluent 14/55 1.20 SetPoint, 74ft ead, 90ft end
    Asc to 200ft (20) Trimix 14/55 -100ft/min ascent.
    Asc to 170ft (21) Trimix 14/55 -30ft/min ascent.
    Stop at 120ft 1:16 (24) Trimix 14/55 0.65 ppO2, 27ft ead, 36ft end
    Stop at 110ft 1:00 (25) Trimix 14/55 0.61 ppO2, 23ft ead, 31ft end
    Stop at 100ft 2:00 (27) Trimix 14/55 0.56 ppO2, 19ft ead, 27ft end
    Stop at 90ft 2:00 (29) Trimix 14/55 0.52 ppO2, 15ft ead, 22ft end
    Stop at 80ft 4:00 (33) Trimix 14/55 0.48 ppO2, 11ft ead, 18ft end
    Stop at 70ft 2:00 (35) Nitrox 50 1.56 ppO2, 32ft ead
    Stop at 60ft 3:00 (38) Nitrox 50 1.41 ppO2, 26ft ead
    Stop at 50ft 3:00 (41) Nitrox 50 1.26 ppO2, 20ft ead
    Stop at 40ft 5:00 (46) Nitrox 50 1.10 ppO2, 13ft ead
    Stop at 30ft 8:00 (54) Nitrox 50 0.95 ppO2, 7ft ead
    Stop at 20ft 14:00 (68) Nitrox 50 0.80 ppO2, 1ft ead
    Stop at 10ft 28:00 (96) Nitrox 50 0.65 ppO2, 0ft ead
    Surface (96) Nitrox 50 -30ft/min ascent.

    Off gassing starts at 195.5ft


    So why does the "fast bailout" mode give me an extra 9 minutes of ascent time?
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

  2. #2
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    Re: bailout mode

    Maybe because the first stop on the B/O plan is 50' shallower that the regular plan. The B/O plan is probably trying to get you a shallow as possible quickly without causing injury to the diver.
    Last edited by sensor330; 30th May 2010 at 05:33.

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    Re: bailout mode

    What was the gas usage for the BO dive?

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    Re: bailout mode

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post
    I am having trouble how bailout mode works in v-planner. Before this option was available I would plan bailout like this:

    V-Planner 3.87 by Ross Hemingway,
    VPM code by Erik C. Baker.

    Decompression model: VPM - B

    DIVE PLAN
    Surface interval = 1 day 0 hr 0 min.
    Elevation = 0ft
    Conservatism = + 2

    Dec to 200ft (4) Diluent 14/55 1.20 SetPoint, 50ft/min descent.
    Dec to 240ft (4) Diluent 14/55 1.20 SetPoint, 60ft/min descent.
    Level 240ft 15:20 (20) Diluent 14/55 1.20 SetPoint, 74ft ead, 90ft end
    Asc to 200ft (20) Trimix 14/55 -100ft/min ascent.
    Asc to 170ft (21) Trimix 14/55 -30ft/min ascent.
    Stop at 160ft 0:36 (22) Trimix 14/55 0.82 ppO2, 43ft ead, 54ft end
    Stop at 150ft 1:00 (23) Trimix 14/55 0.78 ppO2, 39ft ead, 49ft end
    Stop at 140ft 1:00 (24) Trimix 14/55 0.73 ppO2, 35ft ead, 45ft end
    Stop at 130ft 1:00 (25) Trimix 14/55 0.69 ppO2, 31ft ead, 40ft end
    Stop at 120ft 1:00 (26) Trimix 14/55 0.65 ppO2, 27ft ead, 36ft end
    Stop at 110ft 2:00 (28) Trimix 14/55 0.61 ppO2, 23ft ead, 31ft end
    Stop at 100ft 3:00 (31) Trimix 14/55 0.56 ppO2, 19ft ead, 27ft end
    Stop at 90ft 3:00 (34) Trimix 14/55 0.52 ppO2, 15ft ead, 22ft end
    Stop at 80ft 3:00 (37) Trimix 14/55 0.48 ppO2, 11ft ead, 18ft end
    Stop at 70ft 2:00 (39) Nitrox 50 1.56 ppO2, 32ft ead
    Stop at 60ft 3:00 (42) Nitrox 50 1.41 ppO2, 26ft ead
    Stop at 50ft 3:00 (45) Nitrox 50 1.26 ppO2, 20ft ead
    Stop at 40ft 5:00 (50) Nitrox 50 1.10 ppO2, 13ft ead
    Stop at 30ft 7:00 (57) Nitrox 50 0.95 ppO2, 7ft ead
    Stop at 20ft 10:00 (67) Nitrox 50 0.80 ppO2, 1ft ead
    Stop at 10ft 20:00 (87) Nitrox 50 0.65 ppO2, 0ft ead
    Surface (87) Nitrox 50 -30ft/min ascent.

    Off gassing starts at 195.5ft

    OTU's this dive: 70
    CNS Total: 26.9%

    39.6 cu ft Trimix 14/55
    44.2 cu ft Nitrox 50
    83.7 cu ft OC TOTAL

    Now the same dive using bailout mode

    DIVE PLAN - BailOut
    Surface interval = 1 day 0 hr 0 min.
    Elevation = 0ft
    Conservatism = + 3

    Dec to 200ft (4) Diluent 14/55 1.20 SetPoint, 50ft/min descent.
    Dec to 240ft (4) Diluent 14/55 1.20 SetPoint, 60ft/min descent.
    Level 240ft 15:20 (20) Diluent 14/55 1.20 SetPoint, 74ft ead, 90ft end
    Asc to 200ft (20) Trimix 14/55 -100ft/min ascent.
    Asc to 170ft (21) Trimix 14/55 -30ft/min ascent.
    Stop at 120ft 1:16 (24) Trimix 14/55 0.65 ppO2, 27ft ead, 36ft end
    Stop at 110ft 1:00 (25) Trimix 14/55 0.61 ppO2, 23ft ead, 31ft end
    Stop at 100ft 2:00 (27) Trimix 14/55 0.56 ppO2, 19ft ead, 27ft end
    Stop at 90ft 2:00 (29) Trimix 14/55 0.52 ppO2, 15ft ead, 22ft end
    Stop at 80ft 4:00 (33) Trimix 14/55 0.48 ppO2, 11ft ead, 18ft end
    Stop at 70ft 2:00 (35) Nitrox 50 1.56 ppO2, 32ft ead
    Stop at 60ft 3:00 (38) Nitrox 50 1.41 ppO2, 26ft ead
    Stop at 50ft 3:00 (41) Nitrox 50 1.26 ppO2, 20ft ead
    Stop at 40ft 5:00 (46) Nitrox 50 1.10 ppO2, 13ft ead
    Stop at 30ft 8:00 (54) Nitrox 50 0.95 ppO2, 7ft ead
    Stop at 20ft 14:00 (68) Nitrox 50 0.80 ppO2, 1ft ead
    Stop at 10ft 28:00 (96) Nitrox 50 0.65 ppO2, 0ft ead
    Surface (96) Nitrox 50 -30ft/min ascent.

    Off gassing starts at 195.5ft


    So why does the "fast bailout" mode give me an extra 9 minutes of ascent time?
    Why are you using same mix as diluent for bailout?

    Nad

  5. #5
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    Re: bailout mode

    Quote Originally Posted by sunkmail  View Original Post
    What was the gas usage for the BO dive?
    29.8 cu ft Trimix 14/55
    53.6 cu ft Nitrox 50
    83.4 cu ft OC TOTAL



    Quote Originally Posted by Nad  View Original Post
    Why are you using same mix as diluent for bailout?

    Nad
    Because it was just a test of the FBO mode and I wanted to make the comparison as simple as possible
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

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    Re: bailout mode

    it also seems that the conservertism has changed from +2 to +3 in the fbo plan.

    from vplanner website

    "The VPM-B/FBO model variation (Fast Bail Out) is for the use with closed circuit diving and a bail out suituation. The purpose is to help reduce the required diluent gas volume during bailout (typically a 30 to 50% reduction). A Fast Bail Out ascent will reduce the time spent at the deeper stops, and cause the decompression to expand into the shallow stops. The changed ascent shape is still calculated within the context of the VPM-B model. These ascents are aggressive and have fewer deep stops than a regular plan, but VPM-B/FBO still has more deco time than a matching raw Bulhmann plan. "

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    Re: bailout mode

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post

    So why does the "fast bailout" mode give me an extra 9 minutes of ascent time?
    As mentioned above, FBO is to get you up from the deeper stops, and into the shallows faster. This preserves / reduces the deeper mix volume requirements. However this skipping over the deeper stops requires you to pay back that missing deco time with more shallow stop time.

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    MultiDeco-DR5 for the DR-5 dive computer.

  8. #8
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    Re: bailout mode

    Quote Originally Posted by rossh  View Original Post
    As mentioned above, FBO is to get you up from the deeper stops, and into the shallows faster. This preserves / reduces the deeper mix volume requirements. However this skipping over the deeper stops requires you to pay back that missing deco time with more shallow stop time.

    Regards
    I see. I am not sure I see the benefit since the overall gas consumption is the same and since the "fast" mode actually takes longer to clear deco. Is there something I am missing?
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

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    Re: bailout mode

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post
    I am not sure I see the benefit since the overall gas consumption is the same and since the "fast" mode actually takes longer to clear deco. Is there something I am missing?
    are you sure that the overall gas consumption is the same? (for the VPM-B/FBO plan you didnt post the consumption)

    i played around a little bit in vplanner, and in most cases the overall consumption did change quite a bit.

    of course the overall deco is longer, because if you move a stop to a shallower depth it the stop becomes longer.

    the standard conservertism does change +1, because the VPM-b/FBO is a little bit more agressive.

    regards
    DeepB

  10. #10
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    Re: bailout mode

    Quote Originally Posted by DeepB  View Original Post
    are you sure that the overall gas consumption is the same? (for the VPM-B/FBO plan you didnt post the consumption)

    i played around a little bit in vplanner, and in most cases the overall consumption did change quite a bit.

    of course the overall deco is longer, because if you move a stop to a shallower depth it the stop becomes longer.

    the standard conservertism does change +1, because the VPM-b/FBO is a little bit more agressive.

    regards
    DeepB
    I accidentally cut off the gas in my first post but at Sunkmail's request I posted it later 83.4 vs 83.7 cuft is not much of a difference
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

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