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Thread: Sleep Apnea and Pulmonary Edema

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    RBW Member JasonF is a jewel in the rough JasonF is a jewel in the rough JasonF is a jewel in the rough JasonF is a jewel in the rough JasonF is a jewel in the rough JasonF is a jewel in the rough JasonF is a jewel in the rough JasonF is a jewel in the rough JasonF's Avatar
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    Sleep Apnea and Pulmonary Edema

    RBW

    Let me preface this by stating in no way shape or form am I an expert in this field! However I have been doing some research and feel that this is an extremely important topic that we should discuss in further detail.

    More and more people suffer from sleep apnea. A lot of you that are reading this may suffer from it as well.

    Sleep apnea syndrome can lead to many cardiorespiratory problems. Acute pulmonary edema is one of them. It appears that the cause of the PE is from hypoxemia (low blood oxygen) which develops from sleep apnea.

    Typical treatment for Sleep Apnea is a physician prescribing the use of a CPAP Machine (Continuos Positive Airway Pressure). These machines can not be purchased without a prescription!

    I am concerned for divers that are suffering from sleep apnea and the possibility of the onset of Pulmonary Edema during a dive. Pulmonary edema can leave the diver feeling like he or she can not take a satisfying full breath which will lead to panic and a potential for a rapid ascent to the surface.

    What is the solution? I don't know.

    What I do know is that on the RSTC Medical form, there is not one question that covers:

    Are you currently using a medical device prescribed by a physician?

    Do you have a history of sleep apnea?


    I would love to hear your thoughts

    Cheers

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    Chett Lehrer Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L's Avatar
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    rEvo FT / Hollis P-2/ rEvo lll

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    Re: Sleep Apnea and Pulmonary Edema

    Hi Jason,

    If the condition is that bad there is a medical treatment and can be minimized with surgery?

    Best regards,
    Chett. L

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    RBW Member eramosakarst is an unknown quantity at this point eramosakarst's Avatar
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    Re: Sleep Apnea and Pulmonary Edema

    Obstructive Sleep Apnea Syndrome and Snoring: What Is the Role of Surgery? Palate surgery and apnea

    I am not diving due to more severe health issues but I have developed apnea in the time after my injuries.There is NO WAY I would dive while suffering from apnea . There is no way I could justify what I would consider increased risk to myself and others.The heart issue risks are drastically higher from what the doctors have told me not to mention the mental effect of not sleeping properly.

    I cannot see how a doctor would allow diving while suffering from this affliction.Sometimes one has to deal with the end result they do not want-ending diving.While it is a huge blow to a passionate diver-life goes on and the bigger picture applies.

    Apnea machines do work when you use them constantly and attend annual sleep clinics to adjust the unit to your physical/sleep changes over time.They can be a huge irritation and many patients that I have spoken with -chuck theirs on the floor after short nightly use .


    As to the diver who passed-is it known for sure the unit was his and that he suffered?

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    IDA72 - sorrta

    Re: Sleep Apnea and Pulmonary Edema

    I share this reluctantly, in my family exists a condition of sleep apnea. My sister does suffer from this condition. From my personal experience, wittnessing her condition, hits home. I have been reading what has been said of this condition and wonder if an off chute does exist. I can sit in a room with her and others, have a conversation that turns humorous and BAMM! she falls into an unconscious situation. I am curious now and would like to know if while going to depth (with an undiagnosed condition) that a small hit of narcossis could actually correlate into an apnea condition?

    On going confusion,
    Hunter

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    RBW Member eramosakarst is an unknown quantity at this point eramosakarst's Avatar
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    Re: Sleep Apnea and Pulmonary Edema

    Quote Originally Posted by 19Hunter68  View Original Post
    I share this reluctantly, in my family exists a condition of sleep apnea. My sister does suffer from this condition. From my personal experience, wittnessing her condition, hits home. I have been reading what has been said of this condition and wonder if an off chute does exist. I can sit in a room with her and others, have a conversation that turns humorous and BAMM! she falls into an unconscious situation. I am curious now and would like to know if while going to depth (with an undiagnosed condition) that a small hit of narcossis could actually correlate into an apnea condition?

    On going confusion,
    Hunter

    I am sorry your sister has sudden drop offs to sleep..her body certainly needs it apparently.Has she gone through sleep studies and is using a CPAP machine?

    I do not get sudden sleepiness (thankfully as driving becomes an issue then) from what my doctor has told me the majority do get this.I guess everyone can manifest different symptoms.


    In my case I am dealing with a lot of various health issues and medications so the end result is most likely skewed away from a 'standard" response.I do use my machine religiously though.

    The sudden sleep issue aside-the utter feeling of exhaustion and confusion I have experienced before getting treatment HAS to be detrimental to diving alone.I am sure many have not slept properly for a few days on end...the feeling you get from that is potentially lifelong for an apnea sufferer.Of course others may experience completely different results.I can only post from my own experience and perspective.
    Last edited by eramosakarst; 21st November 2009 at 05:21. Reason: change repetetive word

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    Re: Sleep Apnea and Pulmonary Edema

    Quote Originally Posted by 19Hunter68  View Original Post

    (with an undiagnosed condition)

    r
    I certainly believe a large population of people have apnea and are undiagnosed along with type 2 diabetes.I would imagine the potential exists for a certain amount of divers belonging to this group.
    I had many thorough health examinations but the condition was only picked up when I kept pestering for a solution to waking up way too many times

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    IDA72 - sorrta

    Re: Sleep Apnea and Pulmonary Edema

    hmmmm.....
    Last edited by 19Hunter68; 21st November 2009 at 06:59.

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    RBW Member eramosakarst is an unknown quantity at this point eramosakarst's Avatar
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    Re: Sleep Apnea and Pulmonary Edema

    Quote Originally Posted by 19Hunter68  View Original Post
    how much is too much? I personally can sleep like a baby for up to 8-10 hrs without the need to wake, I can also sleep for 5 or 6 hrs and feel just as energized. this is a very undeveloped area of human physiology as far as answers are concerned. However, if there were too be "undiagnosed" situations and apnea was an actual contributory cause of pulmonary weakness then, Huh. How would a base study start?

    In my sleep study- I woke up 40+ times an hour on the worst run (with apnea this does not actually mean wake up like you might think-it means stopped breathing and disturbed sleep patterns) I also wake up +/- 26 times a night of sleep (actual wake up/sit up) at average 3 hrs a night. Like I said though-I have a lot of other things going on and I can only relay what I have been told by docs. I still believe chronic exhaustion /extreme tiredness might be good indicators( excluding things like you only sleep 4 hrs a night due to career etc) for average cases.Diabetes might also exhibit some similar results.


    In relation to diving and undiagnosed....I would think those at risk( look up symptoms) would at least talk to their doctors about it.I do not even remotely have to worry about the cost for tests (Canada) so I feel unrestricted to pursue such things.I am not sure what base line could be implemented to try to cover divers who are afflicted and do not know and how costs could be kept to a minimum.

    I hope a diving doctor posts.I only have my own opinion that personally I would not dive with it..is this as big a hazard to diving as I think it is?

    Are there diving medicine questionnaires with this malady listed?

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    Re: Sleep Apnea and Pulmonary Edema

    Is the OP referring to Pulmonary Edema (PE), or Immersed Pulmonary Edema (IPE). It is my understanding that IPE has causal factors related to ambient pressure and the alveoli being compressed, whereas a standard PE origin could be many factors.

    I ask because "I know a guy" who suffered a very bad IPE near the end of a CCR dive with 40 minutes of deco remaining. He was hospitalized for 4 days after the event (all deco was performed, so he wasn't bent, but talk about a gnarly 40 minutes of deco).

    It is suspected that the IPE was caused by an irritant in the loop (perhaps Virkon not completely rinsed from the loop) which caused coughing. The cough caused a negative in the loop, which spiraled to a full blown IPE.

    Just curious.

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    Re: Sleep Apnea and Pulmonary Edema

    There seems to be two topics being discussed here (well at least two). The first, from the original poster, seems to be a fear that low blood oxygen will somehow effect diving. I'm no doctor but it's my understanding that blood oxygen levels decrease during sleep because of an obstructed airway. When not sleeping the oxygenation levels return to an acceptable level. I would not think this will have any impact on divers with sleep apnea.

    The second topic seems to be a trait of those with more severe sleep apnea and the tendency to doze off during the day. Clearly this second effect of sleep apnea would be more worrisome. Certainly there are some people that are diagnosed with sleep apnea that are restricted from driving and other tasks where the affliction puts them and others in danger. Diving would certainly be one of them.

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