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Thread: Scrubber Duration

  1. #1
    Dive Aqaba Owner Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson's Avatar
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    Pelagian

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    Scrubber Duration

    OK this has probably been done to death...also we all know what the manufacturers of both soda lime and rbs advise...

    What I am trying to find out is what users are doing in warm clear waters on dives where they are not working hard!

    On my Pelagian I stick with the rules which in warm water 6 hours with the standard scrubber....I have done this with both (3kgs)Draeger sorb and (3kgs) Sodasorb no probs...(the last time I bought Sodasorb the vendor suggested I should get 8 hours out of ot as opposed to 6 hours with Sofnolime 797)

    I have also used the Dolphin on many occasions for 6 hours with Drager sorb..I prefer students to stick with 4 hours use...

    Many many parameters are going on here....metabolic rates, water temp, workloads, trimix etc etc...

    Total time over several dives....total time on one big deco dive....

    How long it can be left between dives partially used...plugged and sealed accordingly etc etc...

    Plus all the differing sorbs out there...

    What are other more experienced rb divers doing out there having only done around 100 hours on SCR and another 100 on CCR over the last to years myself...

    I would be interested to hear.

    Rod

  2. #2
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    JJ Hybrid

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    Re: Scrubber Duration

    Id like to see the official test data that reckons you can do six on a Pelegan. It sounds like a number someone pulled out of their own arse.


    Six hours is the "diver norm for pushing it" for units like the KISS Inspo Meg etc. But its finger in the air guesswork as to my knowledge no one has officially tested it.

    Its all down to work load? Depth? Temperature? Grade of lime? SAC?


    As these are variables no one can really say that six is fine.

    I have run 5-6 hours on an inspo and a KISS over two or three shallow dives (less than 30m last two hours less than 20m) on deep dives (70m+) I tend to bin it after the dive if I am planning another deep one next dive. SO if it was a "normal 70" with three hours in the water id bin the lime.

    If i had a 20m reef dive that evening id use it but not on another big dive.

    Longest I have herd about on an inspo scrubber was a totaly unconfirmed 10 hours in 25c water less than 20m deep

    Whilst I would willingly plan a six hour dive on a KISS Inspo Meg etc. I would never plan for 10Hours. Id finish in a habitat on OC or on a deco station on OC.


    The recent tests on the rEvo with a 40SAC in 40m water @15c are the closest to a real world dive I have seen so far and they had breakthrough after four hours.

    So your gambling on the difference 5-10 degrees C makes and a reduction in SAC down to a more normal 15-20LPM.


    In short your pushing your luck

    I push my luck when forced too. But on every day dives i am a very cautious diver.


    ATB

    Mark

  3. #3
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    Re: Scrubber Duration

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    The recent tests on the rEvo with a 40SAC in 40m water @15c are the closest to a real world dive I have seen so far and they had breakthrough after four hours.
    Mark
    and using Sofnolime 8-12, at a CO2 production of 1.6l/min

    we can argue that 1.6 is high, but 10 hours on a 2.7kg scrubber is nonsense

    using sodasorb will decrease the time till breaktrough

    paul
    www.rEvo-rebreathers.com
    ...."Yes you have to pre-breathe to activate the scrubber sorb, anyone who says different doesn't know what they are talking about!"...
    .... to get more accurate CO2 injection in the breathing machine we put 2 mass flow controllers in series ...
    .... The noise is a few tens of nano-volts, so DL were able to reduce the output voltage ...
    .... radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
    .... the earth is flat and ...

  4. #4
    So Cal Tech Diver aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie has a reputation beyond repute aainslie's Avatar
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    Re: Scrubber Duration

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Abbotson  View Original Post
    (the last time I bought Sodasorb the vendor suggested I should get 8 hours out of ot as opposed to 6 hours with Sofnolime 797)
    On what did he base that?

    It cracks me up when someone selling something like this tries to kill their customers. Seems to me to be the best way - literally - to reduce the lifetime value of a customer.
    Andrew Ainslie

    Buhlmann = Bend and Mend
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  5. #5
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    Re: Scrubber Duration

    Paul it would be very nice to run multiple head to head tests between the 8-12 Sonfnolime and the HP 6-12 SodaSorb and see witch is better. The US Navy did testing years ago and the SodaSorb performed better. But they are currently using Sonfnolime as a few months ago a shipment of sorb was thought to have been contaminated and it is still under investigation as to what happened as far as I know. I have not talked with my friend in a while to see what is up with that.

    I have attached a PDF form Grace go to the Other Application section to see the dive data. I am trying to find the last published data form the Navy on the Mk16. I thought I had it but I think it got deleted when I switch over to the new laptop, still looking for that head to head data.

    One of these days they need to update their info this is a little dated.
    Attached Files

  6. #6
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    Re: Scrubber Duration

    Quote Originally Posted by Loanwolf  View Original Post
    Paul it would be very nice to run multiple head to head tests between the 8-12 Sonfnolime and the HP 6-12 SodaSorb and see witch is better. The US Navy did testing years ago and the SodaSorb performed better. But they are currently using Sonfnolime as a few months ago a shipment of sorb was thought to have been contaminated and it is still under investigation as to what happened as far as I know. I have not talked with my friend in a while to see what is up with that.

    I have attached a PDF form Grace go to the Other Application section to see the dive data. I am trying to find the last published data form the Navy on the Mk16. I thought I had it but I think it got deleted when I switch over to the new laptop, still looking for that head to head data.

    One of these days they need to update their info this is a little dated.
    Greg, there is not the slightest doubth that sofno 797 performs better then sodasorb under the same conditions

    paul
    www.rEvo-rebreathers.com
    ...."Yes you have to pre-breathe to activate the scrubber sorb, anyone who says different doesn't know what they are talking about!"...
    .... to get more accurate CO2 injection in the breathing machine we put 2 mass flow controllers in series ...
    .... The noise is a few tens of nano-volts, so DL were able to reduce the output voltage ...
    .... radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
    .... the earth is flat and ...

  7. #7
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    Re: Scrubber Duration

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraymaekers  View Original Post
    Greg, there is not the slightest doubth that sofno 797 performs better then sodasorb under the same conditions

    paul
    Is their published data on that is all I am asking. Many people say it does as you do but has it ever been put to a test. I know it was years ago and SodaSorb was the better, but both companies have done changes to their products since then. It is easy to say one is better than the other but unless their is published results it is hearsay. I have not heard of any testing being done in a long time.

  8. #8
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    Re: Scrubber Duration

    Quote Originally Posted by Loanwolf  View Original Post
    Is their published data on that is all I am asking. Many people say it does as you do but has it ever been put to a test. I know it was years ago and SodaSorb was the better, but both companies have done changes to their products since then. It is easy to say one is better than the other but unless their is published results it is hearsay. I have not heard of any testing being done in a long time.
    Greg, did you forget that we have a full testing facility inhouse?

    But we only do recommendations specific for our users, as we did 2 weeks ago. Our tests are only valid for the rEvo.

    Paul
    www.rEvo-rebreathers.com
    ...."Yes you have to pre-breathe to activate the scrubber sorb, anyone who says different doesn't know what they are talking about!"...
    .... to get more accurate CO2 injection in the breathing machine we put 2 mass flow controllers in series ...
    .... The noise is a few tens of nano-volts, so DL were able to reduce the output voltage ...
    .... radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
    .... the earth is flat and ...

  9. #9
    Dive Deep and Dive Long Loanwolf is a jewel in the rough Loanwolf is a jewel in the rough Loanwolf is a jewel in the rough Loanwolf is a jewel in the rough Loanwolf is a jewel in the rough Loanwolf is a jewel in the rough Loanwolf is a jewel in the rough Loanwolf's Avatar
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    Re: Scrubber Duration

    Paul I know that you have the test equipment, but have your run head to head testing? I do not recall you ever doing that since you have gotten the equipment. You mentioned on SDTD that if someone sent some of the medical product they have been getting form Airgas you would test it. But I have never seen anything after that request. I take it no one sent any of that product to you. What I am asking is have you ever tested the different sorbs head to head with the new equipment. I know your time is very valuable. But I think it would very good thing for the community to know. Now I know this would only be good for the rEvo. But what if a few other units were tested as well so a accurate data set could be collected as to just how the different sorbs preform.

    To give you a good example when I went to Puerto Rico last year I was unable to get the type of sorb I am used to getting. So the first few days of diving I was very unsure of just how long I could run the scrubbers. But after the second day of diving seeing how the scrubbers got used up I figured it out with a minimal wast of sorb due to the duel scrubber design. As compared to a few of the other units that were down their who had to dump a half used packing becuse they were unsure as well on their units.

    Don'T get me wrong I am not asking you to do the data for the other manufacturers but it would be nice to know how the different types of sorb preform. But then again maybe that is something that would be nice to do such as the scooter roundup in Lake Tahoe. The units get tested head to head in as controlled of a environment as possible to compare the differences.

  10. #10
    Dive Aqaba Owner Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson's Avatar
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    Re: Scrubber Duration

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    Id like to see the official test data that reckons you can do six on a Pelegan. It sounds like a number someone pulled out of their own arse.

    Pelagian Diver Controlled Closed Circuit Rebreather

    Never had problem with 6 hours in warm water with either Drager sorb, Soda Sorb, or Sofnolime.

    On the other subject Grace claim on their website that their latest version of Sodasorb out performs Sofnolime and have published test data to supposedly prove it!

    Rod

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