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Thread: Doppler Measurements

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    RBW Member mpain is an unknown quantity at this point mpain's Avatar
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    Doppler Measurements

    Hi all,

    has anyone any experience with Doppler testing of divers for bubble loading?

    Regards

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    Re: Doppler Measurements

    I have been tested using Doppler many times during experimental diving series at DCIEM in Toronto Canada (now DRDC Toronto). It sure is interesting to here the bubbles pulse through the arteries (actually it is kinda scary). We would be tested during the surface interval of surface decompression (7min window) and post dive for a couple of hours. All of the things I saw led me to believe that it differs between divers greatly, even on the same dive profile. Some of the divers would bubble at a score of 4+ (the score are from 0-4) while others would bubble 0?? Not completely sure what it means but it is interesting.


    Rob

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    Re: Doppler Measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by mpain  View Original Post
    Hi all,

    has anyone any experience with Doppler testing of divers for bubble loading?

    Regards
    If you ask the same question on diveoz you will probably get in touch with Doc Andrew Focke (if you aren't already). A couple of years ago he brought along a portable unit and pointed it at several of us after a few dives with Scuttlebutt in Melbourne. Not sure if he was documenting the results or just having a play with the gear, but he's your man.

    Cheers
    Andrew

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    Re: Doppler Measurements

    I took a course in it years ago. I found it fascinating.

    We learned how to listen by using the probes at the right location, how to test under exercise load, how to purchase equipment to set up our own testing, and we spent a lot of time listening to tapes of the sounds of the various bubble grades.

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    Re: Doppler Measurements

    You reminded me - Gene Hobbs at Rubicon was hoping to get some sound tracks made public. I sent him a message to see if he was ever able to get copyright opened up for public consumption.

    I've used one but frankly it's really hard to tell what you're listening to without substantial experience.
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    Re: Doppler Measurements

    Hi MPaine,Using a doppler all the time is 99.99% boring and may have a 0.01% sheer terror (or fun if it's the other guy who's sounding like a popcorn machine). It is best suited to being used the least, in some way.From a user's perspective, it does matter what you want to use it for. Tired after the dive, not sure if it's the 24 beers you kicked back at the bar the night before or if it's the gas dive? It can be handy to decide if you're going to have another after the dive or if oxygen is a better idea.Once you master what veinous flows to analyse, when to listen to arterial flow and why as well as what to listen for, you are pretty well set. It isn't rocket science.Like anything in life, it is sometime handy to weather the 99.99% boredom for that one insightful experience.If you don't have a clue if you are experiencing a lot of decompression stress and would like some idea, it can be a handy tool. Yes, there is a wide swath. It's important to look for certain clues. For example, you may find that staying in the water for a few minutes longer is enough to take you to a bubble-free experience. Another possibility may set you on a course to find out you have a PFO, which can be fixed.Depending on the type of diving, you may discover that a decompression strategy works well for the drift dive, but needs some added conservatism for the 1000' swim at depth against the current. It usually doesn't take very long to put it all together. It is a wonder they are not used more.There are many who believe that it is useless because there is such a wide swath or that hyperbaric specialists consider them mostly useless. Often this is because the bubbles are gone and have done their damage by the time the victim gets to the chamber or a hyperbaric specialist. Make your mind up for yourself. The reality is that they are better on the front line than at the chamber. The user can very rapidly get a sense of certain key parameters and account for certain factors.Poor is the student who does not surpass the master.If you wish to hear some wild bubbling, look for DIR types who boast about their short decompression times and how well they feel after a dive. They usually don't go for another sounding. Denial is not just a river in Egypt. It can be somewhat amusing.

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    Re: Doppler Measurements

    A bit off topic but does anyone know if the dopplers sold for listening to babies in the womb are any good for listening to bubbles? They are seriously cheap by comparison to medical dopplers, just wondering what the sensitivity was like.

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    RBW Member Fred06 is on a distinguished road Fred06 is on a distinguished road Fred06's Avatar
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    Re: Doppler Measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by mpain  View Original Post
    Hi all,

    has anyone any experience with Doppler testing of divers for bubble loading?

    Regards
    Hi,

    A friend of mine is doing a Ph.D. Thesis on decompression. He is doing hundreds of after dives measures (and some dozens on me ...) with the following doppler system which works very well:

    http://www.comex.fr/suite/ceh/bio/docs/doppler%20va.pdf

    This doppler is made by a French company whose name is Aqualab :

    Présentation Detecteur%20de%20bulles%20doppler.php

    Regards.

    Fred.

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    Re: Doppler Measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by Fred06  View Original Post
    Hi,


    A friend of mine is doing a Ph.D. Thesis on decompression. He is doing hundreds of after dives measures (and some dozens on me ...) with the following doppler system which works very well:
    Did he make the device or purchase it? If purchased, can you find out from where?

  10. #10
    RBW Member Fred06 is on a distinguished road Fred06 is on a distinguished road Fred06's Avatar
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    Re: Doppler Measurements

    Quote Originally Posted by PacketSniffer  View Original Post
    Did he make the device or purchase it? If purchased, can you find out from where?
    He didn't make the device. His Ph.D. thesis director lent it him.

    Otherwise, you can purchase this doppler from Aqualab System :

    Detecteur de bulles doppler

    I now that these pages are in French ... Don't hesitate to ask me if you need a translation. I can even call them if you need.

    Regards.

    Fred.

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