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Thread: Frames/Stands: entanglement hazzard?

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    Frames/Stands: entanglement hazzard?

    I'm just begining down the RB road, and I've already noticed quite the height difference between my OC gear and the meg...

    The N@90 stand looks solid and functional... I havn't quite shed my OC/DIR mindset and through those glasses it looks like an entanglement risk...

    To those of you diving these (or other types of frames) as a standard part of our kit; inside wrecks, inside caves, can you touch on your experiences. Have you ever had issues? Am I over analyzing?

    -Tim

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    Re: Frames/Stands: entanglement hazzard?

    Quote Originally Posted by netmage  View Original Post
    I'm just begining down the Rebreather road, and I've already noticed quite the height difference between my OC gear and the meg...

    The N@90 stand looks solid and functional... I havn't quite shed my OC/DIR mindset and through those glasses it looks like an entanglement risk...

    To those of you diving these (or other types of frames) as a standard part of our kit; inside wrecks, inside caves, can you touch on your experiences. Have you ever had issues? Am I over analyzing?

    -Tim
    IMO there are few things that can really be overanalyzed. I've used a stand similar to the narked@90 over the last couple of years and, while I've never had an entanglement issue when running lines or coming across fishing line or the like it's certainly a possibility. Awareness of the places a line could be trapped is important and obviously priority should be given to not getting yourself in that position but I don't believe it would be too difficult to clear such an entanglement since it would be just behind your butt and it's pretty easy to reach back to it.

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    Re: Frames/Stands: entanglement hazzard?

    Quote Originally Posted by netmage  View Original Post
    I'm just begining down the Rebreather road, and I've already noticed quite the height difference between my OC gear and the meg...

    The N@90 stand looks solid and functional... I havn't quite shed my OC/DIR mindset and through those glasses it looks like an entanglement risk...

    To those of you diving these (or other types of frames) as a standard part of our kit; inside wrecks, inside caves, can you touch on your experiences. Have you ever had issues? Am I over analyzing?

    -Tim
    Tim,

    Good question....

    For wreck diving I do use a N@90 stand both to increase the height of the HH CCR for on the boat and to have a redundent O2 source.

    For cave I do not use the stand.....

    M

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    Re: Frames/Stands: entanglement hazzard?

    ...and you've got all the time in the world to sort it out.

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    Re: Frames/Stands: entanglement hazzard?

    Quote Originally Posted by netmage  View Original Post
    ...I havn't quite shed my OC/DIR mindset...
    I beg your pardon, you just bought a CCR, Mr DIR... ;)

    Have you ever had issues?
    I have built and also dived a lot of different frames so I will pass on my 2c...

    In general, they *could* present entanglement points if you don't configure them properly.

    When possible, I try to minimize the amount of holes on the back panel of the frames. If not possible, I try to reduce the size of the holes so only very small things could penetrate. If those small things are metal and that small, I stand a better chance of muscle my way to breaking down if entangled.

    For the bottom part of the frames, make sure you could reach with your hands to every place that could snag. If you can't reach, make it smooth.

    For the top part of the frames, do the same as diving OC twin set.

    And look where you are going, of course.

    I penetrate a lot into tight places in the wrecks, and find lots of rust scrumbles between my BP, wing, and unit yet never had a bad snag that I can't self-extract by myself.

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    Re: Frames/Stands: entanglement hazzard?

    Quote Originally Posted by netmage  View Original Post
    The N@90 stand looks solid and functional... I havn't quite shed my OC/DIR mindset and through those glasses it looks like an entanglement risk...
    OMG you used to dive with a set of regs and three valves with big knobs on behind your head?

    How are you still alive with entanglement problems like that?

    When you compare the two the N@90 stand isn't even in that league. Rebreather divers have problems but they don't tend to have entanglement problems because if something snags the SPG isn't plunging towards the kill zone and they just do the old stop, breath and think trick and fix it. If I really mess things up badly and put an hour on my dive time I may compromise my bailout plan but I'll end up back on the boat discovering they are all mad at me for making them late and they've eaten all the snacks.

    I spent an hour once bullying oxygen into an OC diver who got snagged up and when he got free bolted. He didn't have much duration at depth and he could see his life counting down on the SPG. You have now passed beyond that.

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    Re: Frames/Stands: entanglement hazzard?

    Your reasons are why I don't use one.

    I agree it's a small risk. But, to have a stand to keep my meg a little higher. I just put a piece of ABS cap on the bench. It doesn't go in the water with me. It stays on the boat.

    I thought about lengthening the meg can by putting a ABS cap on and having it LineX'd to the can. But then it won't fit my carry on. Could probably have a Nut AL welded to the bottom and then screw the ABS to it. Then it's removable and not as much of an entaglement hazard. Could even use different height ones. And, it doesn't cost $200-$300 dollars either. I sling my tanks when I bring them. So, no mounting on my butt anyway.

    Having a tank sideways at my butt with the first stage and hoses for snag points didn't seem prudent. Neither did a piece of metal with a lot of snag points. I want to desnag my rig. That's why I like the covers on the Evo and Prism and Inspiration. The tank valve and first stages have a lot of stuff to snag on. Cover them and no snag points. Optima's cover would be great. Stowable and tough.


    Quote Originally Posted by netmage  View Original Post
    I'm just begining down the Rebreather road, and I've already noticed quite the height difference between my OC gear and the meg...

    The N@90 stand looks solid and functional... I havn't quite shed my OC/DIR mindset and through those glasses it looks like an entanglement risk...

    To those of you diving these (or other types of frames) as a standard part of our kit; inside wrecks, inside caves, can you touch on your experiences. Have you ever had issues? Am I over analyzing?

    -Tim

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    Re: Frames/Stands: entanglement hazzard?

    I used to dive with a stand (which carried Bailout as a bonus) now I don't. I could still do with some height assistance kitting up but I have chosen to take a path with my kit where everything is specified purely for diving, I've removed all the convoluted CF's that are designed for convience on the surface- everything has a diving purpose or it isn't there. I don't need the frame/stand to dive so its gone, I suppose entanglablility has been decreased but mainly it was just to purify the whole thing and reduce "crap" (pads, clips, handles and other nonsense)

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    Re: Frames/Stands: entanglement hazzard?

    Tim:

    Following my instructor's lead, I put an OMS 85 tank boot on the bottom of my canister, put a piece of wood inside for blocking, and used one ss hose clamp to hold it on. It raises the rig, is tangle free, inexpensive, and simply continues the Meg's canister profile. Being black, you don't even see it.

    Bill

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    Re: Frames/Stands: entanglement hazzard?

    I have the Narked @90 stand and would recommend it. I have used it in Florida cave diving and also ocean wreck diving. It makes the Meg easy to get into, pick up, allows for easy sidemounting of bailout cylinders. I think if I was living in Florida Cave country I would not need the stand for cave diving. For the majority of the dives (off boats) we do here in the Lake, the stand is a perfect tool for the job. It is a bit pricey but is well made and excellent quality. I don't use the bottom of the stand to hold an Argon bottle since I don't want anymore weight in the ass end. I mount a small argon bottle to my dil bottle. Highly unlikely to be an entanglement hazard.

    Hope this helps you decide.
    Last edited by gottrimix; 23rd January 2008 at 16:27. Reason: Typo

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