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Thread: In Water Recompression - Split from Oriskany Thread

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    Re: Oriskany Accident

    Guys,

    i would like to ask something. maybe you feel i can hijacking the thread so please, split if possible.

    reading a bit from here, in the latter stages this thread gives the idea that it was mainly due to time, i.e because the USCG was kind of late to respond? am i right with this? if not, please ignore.

    given this circumstances, (i dont know the situation of the unfortunate fellow) would you consider it "wrong" to get the diver down to at least 6 metres and get him on a rich mix?

    i am only saying this because i have it made clear to the people i dive with, that if i ever dive Akamas, or somewhere where Chamber is very far, and it takes ages to get me there, and my condition is still good, i.e i can breath and hold a reg in my mouth....i would be happy for my buddy or my team to get me down to 6-12 metres (deppense on the deco of the dive off course) and get me on a rich mix and let me there until the mix is used. if i can use the RB, even better.

    What do you think of the idea. if they wait to get me to a chamber, in my mind, i am definetely gone! at least, that way, i stand a chance, and i think a good chance!

    am curious.

    Spyros.

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    Re: Oriskany Accident

    Quote Originally Posted by Outlaw  View Original Post
    Guys,

    i would like to ask something. maybe you feel i can hijacking the thread so please, split if possible.

    given this circumstances, (i dont know the situation of the unfortunate fellow) would you consider it "wrong" to get the diver down to at least 6 metres and get him on a rich mix? .



    Huge possible discussion.

    Start a thread on in-water decompression and let's have at it.


    Dave

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    Re: In Water Recompression - Split from Oriskany Thread

    Split from the Oriskany thread, this could be an interesting one.

    Enjoy.

    Dave - Mod

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    Re: In Water Recompression - Split from Oriskany Thread

    Prior Thread-
    http://www.rebreatherworld.com/showthread.php?t=1210

    Fodder for the group.

    Breathe deep, Andrew

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    Re: In Water Recompression - Split from Oriskany Thread

    This sure is a very interesting topic. I am sure most of you have read the article by Richard Pyle with its case studies about the IWR. But the one thing I am wondering is why DAN does not think IWR is a good idea?
    Of course, if diver takes a hit and he is 10-15min from the next chamber, no question there. But what if you are 2 days out at sea..... different story there.

    just my 2 cents,
    RBN

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    Re: In Water Recompression - Split from Oriskany Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by RebreatherNut  View Original Post
    This sure is a very interesting topic. I am sure most of you have read the article by Richard Pyle with its case studies about the IWR. But the one thing I am wondering is why DAN does not think IWR is a good idea?
    Of course, if diver takes a hit and he is 10-15min from the next chamber, no question there. But what if you are 2 days out at sea..... different story there.

    just my 2 cents,
    RBN
    IWR compression in remote areas if done correctly can save lives, but before one attempts IWR, you need to have the right equipment to do it correctly..

    a) lots of 02
    b) FFM
    c) dive buddy,
    D) a method of supporting the diver from the surface and controlling the acsent.

    Just to name a few....

    Remember you ar going to do at a minimum of 30mins at 9m, up to 60min at 9m for a mild case (up to 90 minutes for a serious case), then a very slow ascent from there... the run tim is 2:06 (shortest) to 3:06 longest.. the ascent rate is 12 minutes per meter..
    Joe Radomski
    CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer
    ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10

    All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.

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    Re: In Water Recompression - Split from Oriskany Thread

    Thanks for that link, it was a useful read.

    When in Truk, in the late nineties or early noughties, I remember being warned that though there was a recompression chamber on the island, one of the locals was now living in it! The nearest chamber, therefore, was Guam: a plane ride and probably 12 hours away. Lack of chambers is a common problem in the Pacific. Having to make a decision on this in case of a poop/fan collision is therefore a real possibility. The IWR decision is not whether to or not, but merely how to. With that in mind, a couple of questions:

    The preferred OC method appears to be 9m on 100% O2, but a rebreather diver can achieve that same 1.9B PO2 for any depth greater than or equal to 9m. Would the benefits outweigh the risks of having that same PO2 slightly deeper? That way the bubbles are shrunk more.

    I believe that commercial divers are expected to be able to endure PO2s of around 2.8. What proportion of people can endure that kind of PO2 (and for how long)? More importantly, what proportion of people are likely to have ox tox hits at 1.9B?

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    Re: In Water Recompression - Split from Oriskany Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jradomski  View Original Post
    Remember you ar going to do at a minimum of 30mins at 9m, up to 60min at 9m for a mild case (up to 90 minutes for a serious case), then a very slow ascent from there... the run tim is 2:06 (shortest) to 3:06 longest.. the ascent rate is 12 minutes per meter..
    Not arguing with you Joe, but I think it's perhaps worth considering where 'extended decompression' ends and 'In Water Recompresion' begins?

    I've never seen anyone do IWR, but I have seen a few people get back in with 'niggles'. My 'friend' recounts that there may have been one or two times where an elbow or shoulder is a bit painful on surfacing, so jump back in and do an extra 20, 30, 40 minutes - or until it feels better and you're bored. (Remember: dive til you're scared, hang til you are bored :) )

    Is it defined as extended deco if you just get in for a bit more time, but IWR if you follow a formal protocol? I suspect it's a continuum from no big deal, to bad but manageable, to where IWR is just too risky due to possible unconsciousness. And everyone will need to make up their own mind where they are on the scale and what the correct action should be.

    For me, most times where IWR is feasible, I think that the main benefit is significant time at pressure on O2, rather than needing to follow a strict protocol. If I was able, I'd jump in even with only 40 of O2 and breath it down at 6m (and breath it dry floating on the surface) if that's all there was. And I'd take that approach anywhere more than about an hours fast boat ride from a chamber.

    Mike

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    Re: In Water Recompression - Split from Oriskany Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jradomski  View Original Post
    IWR compression in remote areas if done correctly can save lives, but before one attempts IWR, you need to have the right equipment to do it correctly..

    a) lots of 02
    b) FFM
    c) dive buddy,
    D) a method of supporting the diver from the surface and controlling the acsent.

    Just to name a few....

    Remember you ar going to do at a minimum of 30mins at 9m, up to 60min at 9m for a mild case (up to 90 minutes for a serious case), then a very slow ascent from there... the run tim is 2:06 (shortest) to 3:06 longest.. the ascent rate is 12 minutes per meter..

    hello,

    am reffering to your plan of IWR. is there any fixed type of plan for this on a RB? i remember in OC, there was a rule of going down to 12m, and do 1/4 of your overall deco, then 9m and do 1/3, then 6m and do 1/2 and then 3 and do 1.5 of your overall deco.

    is there something similar to RB ?

    thanks.

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    Re: In Water Recompression - Split from Oriskany Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike  View Original Post
    Not arguing with you Joe, but I think it's perhaps worth considering where 'extended decompression' ends and 'In Water Recompresion' begins?

    I've never seen anyone do IWR, but I have seen a few people get back in with 'niggles'. My 'friend' recounts that there may have been one or two times where an elbow or shoulder is a bit painful on surfacing, so jump back in and do an extra 20, 30, 40 minutes - or until it feels better and you're bored. (Remember: dive til you're scared, hang til you are bored :) )

    Is it defined as extended deco if you just get in for a bit more time, but IWR if you follow a formal protocol? I suspect it's a continuum from no big deal, to bad but manageable, to where IWR is just too risky due to possible unconsciousness. And everyone will need to make up their own mind where they are on the scale and what the correct action should be.

    For me, most times where IWR is feasible, I think that the main benefit is significant time at pressure on O2, rather than needing to follow a strict protocol. If I was able, I'd jump in even with only 40 of O2 and breath it down at 6m (and breath it dry floating on the surface) if that's all there was. And I'd take that approach anywhere more than about an hours fast boat ride from a chamber.

    Mike

    Personally if I couldn't follow the protocol, I would get back in the water with my dive buddy and go on a rich deco gas (like 50%) and descent until the symptoms subsided or I reached my mod.. stay there for a few minutes and start a very slow ascent and redescend if symptoms reappear... once I got to a safe depth I would go on o2 and use it until its dry.. It would at least give me a fighting chance.. The buddy is going to be really important.. Hes going to have to make sure I dont go paralyzed or pass out and make sure my reg is always in place..

    Whenever I travel to areas I know a chamber is going to be an Issue I always travel with a FFM and have it prepped for oxygen, so that I have at least a fighting chance.. Its a cheap FFM (ocean reef) but it has its specific purpose without spending alot of money..
    Joe Radomski
    CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer
    ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10

    All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.

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