VR3 safety vs Vision GF?

Mark Wan · 15th July 2006, 11:13

Just bought myself a new VR3 (closed circuit nitrox), and I'm going to be running it as a backup to my Vision Inspo. I have the trimix s/w on my inspiration, and I was wondering if people have worked out what gradient factor settings correspond to the VR3's safety levels?

eg, is 20/80 the same as VR3 safety 0?

I'm still building up the hours on my Inspiration before I do a trimix course, but figure I might as well get used to the VR3 first.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help received.

mark

decoweenie · 15th July 2006, 11:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Wan)

eg, is 20/80 the same as VR3 safety 0?

In total RT for the dive, they might be close...

...but the profiles are completely different since Vision uses GF with running ceiling versus VR-3 uses straight Buhlmann with "micro-bubble" stops (aka 2-min Pyle stops).

So if you stick to the slower-ascent profile of the Vision, I believe the VR-3 will penalize you with slightly longer shallow stops.

Mark Chase · 15th July 2006, 11:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Wan)

Just bought myself a new VR3 (closed circuit nitrox), and I'm going to be running it as a backup to my Vision Inspo. I have the trimix s/w on my inspiration, and I was wondering if people have worked out what gradient factor settings correspond to the VR3's safety levels?

eg, is 20/80 the same as VR3 safety 0?

I'm still building up the hours on my Inspiration before I do a trimix course, but figure I might as well get used to the VR3 first.

Thanks in advance for any advice/help received.

mark

20/80 is slightly more conservitave than the VR3 on 0 safety I am running 25/85 which is about right but it dosent have the deep microbubble stops of the VR3.

ATB

Mark Chase

Mark Chase · 15th July 2006, 11:27

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

In total RT for the dive, they might be close...

...but the profiles are completely different since Vision uses GF with running ceiling versus VR-3 uses straight Buhlmann with "micro-bubble" stops (aka 2-min Pyle stops).

So if you stick to the slower-ascent profile of the Vision, I believe the VR-3 will penalize you with slightly longer shallow stops.

No the vision ascent rate is much quicker than the VR3 it dosent have the deep stops. All the divers on Vision divers crawl over me on the ascent line on the way up.

ATB

Mark Chase

decoweenie · 15th July 2006, 11:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

No the vision ascent rate is much quicker than the VR3 it dosent have the deep stops. All the divers on Vision divers crawl over me on the ascent line on the way up.

Mark,

You do understand not all Vision divers are diving the same GF settings, right ?

So you can't make a generalized statement like above.

If Vision diver A uses 30/85, Vision diver B uses 20/80 and Vision diver C uses 10/98 (max value) then all three divers will follow different profiles.

Yes, the micro-bubble stops could be deeper than some GF settings, but not always. I had a VR-3 and dive excelusively 10/100. My first GF stop is deeper than the micro-bubble stop on the VR-3.

Two of the guys in our group used to dive exclusively with their VR-3 (until they have their Vision, so now follow both

), my stops have always been deeper on all of the wrecks we dived together.

Timbo · 15th July 2006, 13:03

I spoke to Martin Parker on Wednesday of this week.

I asked him about this as i had always used a VR3 on 10% with a 4th cell on my classic, and i have now got a Vision Inspo.

He suggested that a setting of 85/15 would be as near as similar, however vision would get me up and out a bit quicker, i was going to try it today, however this sodding wind has done me legs.

Still will try again on Tuesday. If you are interested will let you know.

Mark Chase · 15th July 2006, 13:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Mark,

You do understand not all Vision divers are diving the same GF settings, right ?

So you can't make a generalized statement like above.

.

I know exactly what GFs ALL the others in my team are diveing, 25/85

decoweenie · 15th July 2006, 13:37

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

I know exactly what GFs ALL the others in my team are diveing, 25/85

Sure, then your post should read...

"No the vision ascent rate (using 25/85 GF) is much quicker than the VR3 it dosent have the deep stops."

Sorry, I am just a little anal about generalization...

Mark Chase · 15th July 2006, 14:45

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

Sure, then your post should read...

"No the vision ascent rate (using 25/85 GF) is much quicker than the VR3 it dosent have the deep stops."

Sorry, I am just a little anal about generalization...

Just about generalization?

ATB

Mark Chase

decoweenie · 15th July 2006, 17:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Just about generalization?

If you disagree with others, then expect others to disagree with you...

15th July 2006, 11:13	#1 (permalink)
Mark Wan RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Hammersmith, London Posts: 59	VR3 safety vs Vision GF? Just bought myself a new VR3 (closed circuit nitrox), and I'm going to be running it as a backup to my Vision Inspo. I have the trimix s/w on my inspiration, and I was wondering if people have worked out what gradient factor settings correspond to the VR3's safety levels? eg, is 20/80 the same as VR3 safety 0? I'm still building up the hours on my Inspiration before I do a trimix course, but figure I might as well get used to the VR3 first. Thanks in advance for any advice/help received. mark __________________ newbie inspo vision diver
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15th July 2006, 11:24	#2 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: VR3 safety vs Vision GF? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Wan) eg, is 20/80 the same as VR3 safety 0? In total RT for the dive, they might be close... ...but the profiles are completely different since Vision uses GF with running ceiling versus VR-3 uses straight Buhlmann with "micro-bubble" stops (aka 2-min Pyle stops). So if you stick to the slower-ascent profile of the Vision, I believe the VR-3 will penalize you with slightly longer shallow stops. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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15th July 2006, 11:25	#3 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,863	Re: VR3 safety vs Vision GF? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Wan) Just bought myself a new VR3 (closed circuit nitrox), and I'm going to be running it as a backup to my Vision Inspo. I have the trimix s/w on my inspiration, and I was wondering if people have worked out what gradient factor settings correspond to the VR3's safety levels? eg, is 20/80 the same as VR3 safety 0? I'm still building up the hours on my Inspiration before I do a trimix course, but figure I might as well get used to the VR3 first. Thanks in advance for any advice/help received. mark 20/80 is slightly more conservitave than the VR3 on 0 safety I am running 25/85 which is about right but it dosent have the deep microbubble stops of the VR3. ATB Mark Chase __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
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15th July 2006, 11:27	#4 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,863	Re: VR3 safety vs Vision GF? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) In total RT for the dive, they might be close... ...but the profiles are completely different since Vision uses GF with running ceiling versus VR-3 uses straight Buhlmann with "micro-bubble" stops (aka 2-min Pyle stops). So if you stick to the slower-ascent profile of the Vision, I believe the VR-3 will penalize you with slightly longer shallow stops. No the vision ascent rate is much quicker than the VR3 it dosent have the deep stops. All the divers on Vision divers crawl over me on the ascent line on the way up. ATB Mark Chase __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
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15th July 2006, 11:50	#5 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: VR3 safety vs Vision GF? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) No the vision ascent rate is much quicker than the VR3 it dosent have the deep stops. All the divers on Vision divers crawl over me on the ascent line on the way up. Mark, You do understand not all Vision divers are diving the same GF settings, right ? So you can't make a generalized statement like above. If Vision diver A uses 30/85, Vision diver B uses 20/80 and Vision diver C uses 10/98 (max value) then all three divers will follow different profiles. Yes, the micro-bubble stops could be deeper than some GF settings, but not always. I had a VR-3 and dive excelusively 10/100. My first GF stop is deeper than the micro-bubble stop on the VR-3. Two of the guys in our group used to dive exclusively with their VR-3 (until they have their Vision, so now follow both ), my stops have always been deeper on all of the wrecks we dived together. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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15th July 2006, 13:03	#6 (permalink)
Timbo New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hertfordshire UK Posts: 63	Re: VR3 safety vs Vision GF? I spoke to Martin Parker on Wednesday of this week. I asked him about this as i had always used a VR3 on 10% with a 4th cell on my classic, and i have now got a Vision Inspo. He suggested that a setting of 85/15 would be as near as similar, however vision would get me up and out a bit quicker, i was going to try it today, however this sodding wind has done me legs. Still will try again on Tuesday. If you are interested will let you know. Last edited by Timbo : 15th July 2006 at 13:05.
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15th July 2006, 13:22	#7 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,863	Re: VR3 safety vs Vision GF? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Mark, You do understand not all Vision divers are diving the same GF settings, right ? So you can't make a generalized statement like above. . I know exactly what GFs ALL the others in my team are diveing, 25/85 __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
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15th July 2006, 13:37	#8 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: VR3 safety vs Vision GF? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) I know exactly what GFs ALL the others in my team are diveing, 25/85 Sure, then your post should read... "No the vision ascent rate (using 25/85 GF) is much quicker than the VR3 it dosent have the deep stops." Sorry, I am just a little anal about generalization... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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15th July 2006, 14:45	#9 (permalink)
Mark Chase RBW Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,863	Re: VR3 safety vs Vision GF? Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) Sure, then your post should read... "No the vision ascent rate (using 25/85 GF) is much quicker than the VR3 it dosent have the deep stops." Sorry, I am just a little anal about generalization... Just about generalization? ATB Mark Chase __________________ See my "Doing It Chasey" video where I'm locked into a padded room, naked, with two ball bearings and within an Hour, I manage to lose one and break the other!!! Kevin Juergensen 16/11/08 [/quote]
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15th July 2006, 17:55	#10 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Re: VR3 safety vs Vision GF? Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Just about generalization? If you disagree with others, then expect others to disagree with you... __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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