VR3 BUH or VPM

Mark Chase · 10th April 2008, 00:00

I dived the Bhulman VR3s and I wasent overly impressed with the big jumps from deep to shalow stops and I hated the monster loading it gave you for helium so I egerly awaited the VPM-B upgrade

When it came i thought it was a bit disappointing but it did offer a smoother deco curve.

I have no idea if a smooth curve is a good thing but it was very fashionable at the time

The general consensus among the people who did go VPM was that it's a tad disappointing. The Liquavision X1 VPM might be worth looking at if its available.

Personally i am now much happier with GF deco on the Shearwater. Its more intuitive.

ATB

Mark

***diverklondike*** · 10th April 2008, 00:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

I dived the Bhulman VR3s and I wasent overly impressed with the big jumps from deep to shalow stops and I hated the monster loading it gave you for helium so I egerly awaited the VPM-B upgrade

When it came i thought it was a bit disappointing but it did offer a smoother deco curve.

I have no idea if a smooth curve is a good thing but it was very fashionable at the time

The general consensus among the people who did go VPM was in agreement in that it was a tad disappointing. The Liquavision X1 VPM might be worth looking at if its available.

Personally i am now much happier with GF deco on the Shearwater. Its more intuitive.

ATB

Mark

Mark,

I assume that you are saying the people who went with the VR3 VPM were disappointed. I am in total agreement with that having own several VR3s and now sold them all of them.

I currently have an X1 on order and will let you know how that one goes. In the mean time it's GF's for me...

M

tecdivertraining · 10th April 2008, 00:33

So Just another walk in th park for my two guys in training,

both diving vpm VR3 yesterday on exactly the same profile when one had had 18 mins of deco and the other 48 mins all setup is identical.

having cleared the deco at 12m - 9m we moved to the final stop 6m and the one unit pushed us back to 12m for more stops???????

Both are the latest version computers with vpm

I think I will be using my new software from now on, its called Mcdeco-on-the -fly

You will be able to down load it soon from my website it in a super size version with extra relish.

tecdivertraining · 10th April 2008, 00:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

Mark,

I assume that you are saying the people who went with the VR3 VPM were disappointed. I am in total agreement with that having own several VR3s and now sold them all of them.

I currently have an X1 on order and will let you know how that one goes. In the mean time it's GF's for me...

M

I'm not disappointed with mine they work as well as I expected

.

I recently had the chance to dive with the X1 and I will be keeping my VR3 hope you like it more than I did. tap tap bump bump, thats not what I need deep in a wreck or cave.

Drmike · 10th April 2008, 03:14

Quote: (Originally Posted by aainslie)

Well, let's get to a few basic points:

a) You don't like VPM because it's been modified twice. Yet you love Buhlmann which contains almost a century's worth of modifications from its origination as the Haldanian model.

Nope, I do like VPMBE which is what I use all the time to plan ALL my big dives and I do like and trust vr3vpm (Which in the words of the creator of V-planner is similar to VPMB). I never said VPMBE was crap or that I didnt like or trust it. My comments were about earlier versions of VPM that didnt give enough deco.

Quote:

b) You don't like VPM because it hasn't been empirically tested as much as Buhlmann.

Its not a case of 'not liking it' I simply made the point that it hadnt been tested as much as Buh - thats all. Testing is good. Proper testing is better. Proper testing is not done by sports divers in a non control group - thats my ONLY point re: testing and I cant see how anyone would disagree

Quote:

Is mere superiority of volume of empirical testing enough?

yes in part it is. Models are best tested formally under controlled conditions not on sports divers under varying conditions, no control, TOOO many variables and poor/min reporting and correlation.

Quote:

Ross's software gets used a lot with no evidence of an unusually high level of bends and little evidence of ANY bends.

theres no way you can quantify that with any degree of certainty as theres no way to capture all the incidents and look at the data look at any variations in the profiles followed gases used, hydration levels etc etc etc. Just looking at Ross list of dives Ive shown how its easy to asume the wrong data. If data collection is done by word of mouth its often just hearsay - which is in part one of the reasons why control studies are the best method.

Quote:

It may not be as much as the data behind Buhlmann, but don't you think it's suffficient?

No I dont think its really sufficient and I dont think you will find anyone learned in the field who will agree that it is. Yes it does look like VPMBE works quite well but thats not really something we can quantify without proper study, and you can never study enough.

Quote:

It seems you pick your battles. On the first rationale (changes) you should be the first to disqualify Buhlmann. So - is occasional change enough to disqualify a model? if so, be consistent and disqualify Buhlmann. Especially if you use it with GF, which I'll bet you do.

Again you are off track. Changes are not the issue. Changes are a good thing if they improve the no. of bends as it did with VPMX. I never said that a model is crap IF its been changed - that would be kinda stupid to suggest. Change is the way we improve. All I said re:vpx was it had undergone changes to make it more useful (stop bending divers) which it has - whats wrong with that??

Quote:

I'm not going to go into your endless debates about who did what dive to what depth on what algorithm

Theres been no debate here re: who did what dives. Who (anywhere or anytime) is debating that Ben did use VPM? er nobody. I posted Bens words - he used Zplanner. Who (anywhere or anytime) is debating Yamashiro dive was to 176m? In previous post Ross himself acknowledged that depth (the decostop) These facts are straight forward enough for you or anyone else to check. The only fact where theres any debate is CV dive depth at SraKeow - and for that I simply posted the link to his dive buddies dive report where he tells what happened - no debate was entered into.

So honestly I dont know what these 'endless debates' are you mention.

Quote:

- your fixation on that is not really of much interest to me or most of the rest of us.

another thing we see with people like you who jump into a discussion with an agenda is they use the word WE a lot

fixation on what? (I put it to you that you are the one fixating on CV dive as for me its just a coincodence that its one of the dives incorrectly reported)

So you have no interest in fact dives listed on V-planner website as vpm dives or dives to certain depth arent in fact either? Interesting. Personally I try to look at correct data when choosing or trusting a model. In addition if its not really of much interest to you - why are you talking?

Sure sure one of the dives is one of the contentious ones debated before - It does apear that your fixating on that one fact - when you shouldnt as if you ignore that dive the rest of the errors (Bens zplanner dive and Yamashiro depth) stand independantly.

This is exactly why I wrote in a previous post:-

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

It is indeed unfortunate, and im well aware of, the risk that seeing as CV dives are two of the dives on the list inaccurately reported that it could be seen as a personal cruisade - but its not, honestly. I havent for eg seen CV ever suggest he went to 190m on the yamashiro - so this is likely no more than Ross's typo error.

alas you didnt read or wish to believe it

Quote:

Oh - and you DO have a serious ego. However since I'm occasionally accused of the same I should probably tread lightly there...

Not necessary I never suggested I was anything more than intolerant and egotistical - BUT I do like to debate facts and logic I dont see any of those coming from a discussion about egos or personality - i suggest such topics are irelevant, when it comes to discussing facts figures and opinions, and shouldnt be brought up

Drmike · 10th April 2008, 03:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining)

So Just another walk in th park for my two guys in training,

both diving vpm VR3 yesterday on exactly the same profile when one had had 18 mins of deco and the other 48 mins all setup is identical.

having cleared the deco at 12m - 9m we moved to the final stop 6m and the one unit pushed us back to 12m for more stops???????

Both are the latest version computers with vpm

I think I will be using my new software from now on, its called Mcdeco-on-the -fly

You will be able to down load it soon from my website it in a super size version with extra relish.

damn thats kinda worrying. Years ago I was doing a dive and at 10m I looked at my vr3 and it said i was at 20m. I was going to send it back but never got around to it. It never repeated the error again in all this time so I have no idea what the heck was going on.

I was using an explorer once and on ascent at 80m it gave me a 2 min stop. after what felt like 2 mins i looked at it and it was still showing 2mins (2mins can seem a life time sometimes on deco) a few mins later I looked again and still showed 2 mins.
The little pool of brown water collecting in the corner of the screen told me it was flooded and the display frozen. I had been sat there for probably 5+ mins ongassing like an idiot!

This is one of the reasons I dive with a couple of comps (3) I figure chances of all 3 going south are small - if they do its gonna be a loooong deco

PS you dont have time to have a McDECO you have too many students waiting! - how many certs you done this month?

Andy Del · 10th April 2008, 04:24

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

I dived the Bhulman VR3s and I wasent overly impressed with the big jumps from deep to shalow stops and I hated the monster loading it gave you for helium so I egerly awaited the VPM-B upgrade

Thanks for getting this back on topic for a little while, Mark!

The issue is that VR3s have some sort of deco algorithm, but who knows what! Mine has done two trips back home to mother, after failing on dive #1, and then due to the VPM giving extraordinary amounts of extra deco. Isn't it interesting that some divers have found the opposite?

In all my emails back and forth to the kind folks at Delta-P, they eventually admitted that their VPM wasn't VPM at all, but an emulation, due to the cost of buying the right to use it (this could be bunk as well...) and their version was closer to VPMB/E +3. At the time it was advertised as 'VPM', and I made a point that now saying VPMB/E +3 as a rough equivalent was akin to false advertising on their part.

They took the VR back, played with it, gave me new 2007 software for free, and promptly forgot about me. Sigh.

Some of my dive buddies (same boat ramp, same ocean) who have decades of diving experience in the 150-200ft range feel the VR3s they bought to be, at best, very disappointing and expensive toys.

Seeing as respected and qualified hyperbaric physicians don't trust their deco schedule, it may behoove us all to do likewise.

Lancer, get in the line to sell off your VRs!

Shearwaters seem to work much better, using a Buhlmann algorithm that we can adapt, tweak and change as we like!

Lancer4545 · 10th April 2008, 07:01

Thanks for the input but please lets not make this a slinging match and try and keep it on the topic.

As evident by the number of replies it's obvious there are more than a few of us looking for the same answers.......This is a good place to try and work them out and a good time to do it!!!

I received a reply from Al Wright from Delta P (Hi AL) and he has just told me the same as Andy Del has just put up. He also tells me had I followed either computer then I would have ended up with very similar run times. Which makes me think you can run the VR3BUH and start your stops shallower or pay a heap of extra money and start your stops deeper. Combine the 2 and you will be calling Matt for a McDeco, Large Fries and a McSlurry

At this point I am not planning to part with any of my VR3s as I still think they are a great computer. If anything I am trying to work out what is the best way to use them for my diving.

At the moment I am thinking of using both computers as before but doing all the deep stops as per the VR3VPM and clearing the deco on it, then doing half the remaining deco on the VR3BUH.

Like someone once said, " After doing a long dive what's a few more minutes hanging there going to matter" I'd much prefer to be hanging at 6m reasonably comfortable than lying on the boat sucking O2 in pain!!

Regards,

Lance

Mark Chase · 10th April 2008, 07:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike)

Mark,

I assume that you are saying the people who went with the VR3 VPM were disappointed. I am in total agreement with that having own several VR3s and now sold them all of them.

I currently have an X1 on order and will let you know how that one goes. In the mean time it's GF's for me...

M

Yes sorry, nothing to do with proper VPM. just the VR3 interpritation.

ATB

MArk

Mark Chase · 10th April 2008, 07:55

Quote: (Originally Posted by Lancer4545)

Thanks for the input but please lets not make this a slinging match and try and keep it on the topic.

As evident by the number of replies it's obvious there are more than a few of us looking for the same answers.......This is a good place to try and work them out and a good time to do it!!!

I received a reply from Al Wright from Delta P (Hi AL) and he has just told me the same as Andy Del has just put up. He also tells me had I followed either computer then I would have ended up with very similar run times. Which makes me think you can run the VR3BUH and start your stops shallower or pay a heap of extra money and start your stops deeper. Combine the 2 and you will be calling Matt for a McDeco, Large Fries and a McSlurry

At this point I am not planning to part with any of my VR3s as I still think they are a great computer. If anything I am trying to work out what is the best way to use them for my diving.

At the moment I am thinking of using both computers as before but doing all the deep stops as per the VR3VPM and clearing the deco on it, then doing half the remaining deco on the VR3BUH.

Like someone once said, " After doing a long dive what's a few more minutes hanging there going to matter" I'd much prefer to be hanging at 6m reasonably comfortable than lying on the boat sucking O2 in pain!!

Regards,

Lance

I did exactly this prety much all the time i owned VR3s I went to the first deep stop then added stops inbetween the jumps.

It messed with the TTS but never enough to anoy me.

I was going to upgrade both my VR3s to VPM but as i say i wasent impressed.

However in the end I baught a Hammer Head with GF deco built in. Having experianced GF deco i knew its was the way for me so I baught the Shearwater.

VR3s a great computer but I prefer GF deco.

ATB

Mark

10th April 2008, 00:00	#41 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,417	Re: VR3 BUH or VPM I dived the Bhulman VR3s and I wasent overly impressed with the big jumps from deep to shalow stops and I hated the monster loading it gave you for helium so I egerly awaited the VPM-B upgrade When it came i thought it was a bit disappointing but it did offer a smoother deco curve. I have no idea if a smooth curve is a good thing but it was very fashionable at the time The general consensus among the people who did go VPM was that it's a tad disappointing. The Liquavision X1 VPM might be worth looking at if its available. Personally i am now much happier with GF deco on the Shearwater. Its more intuitive. ATB Mark __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System Last edited by Mark Chase : 10th April 2008 at 07:50.
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10th April 2008, 00:21	#42 (permalink)
*diverklondike* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Delaware, USA Posts: 1,439	Re: VR3 BUH or VPM Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) I dived the Bhulman VR3s and I wasent overly impressed with the big jumps from deep to shalow stops and I hated the monster loading it gave you for helium so I egerly awaited the VPM-B upgrade When it came i thought it was a bit disappointing but it did offer a smoother deco curve. I have no idea if a smooth curve is a good thing but it was very fashionable at the time The general consensus among the people who did go VPM was in agreement in that it was a tad disappointing. The Liquavision X1 VPM might be worth looking at if its available. Personally i am now much happier with GF deco on the Shearwater. Its more intuitive. ATB Mark Mark, I assume that you are saying the people who went with the VR3 VPM were disappointed. I am in total agreement with that having own several VR3s and now sold them all of them. I currently have an X1 on order and will let you know how that one goes. In the mean time it's GF's for me... M
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10th April 2008, 00:33	#43 (permalink)
tecdivertraining RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Phuket, Thailand Posts: 389	Re: VR3 BUH or VPM So Just another walk in th park for my two guys in training, both diving vpm VR3 yesterday on exactly the same profile when one had had 18 mins of deco and the other 48 mins all setup is identical. having cleared the deco at 12m - 9m we moved to the final stop 6m and the one unit pushed us back to 12m for more stops??????? Both are the latest version computers with vpm I think I will be using my new software from now on, its called Mcdeco-on-the -fly You will be able to down load it soon from my website it in a super size version with extra relish. __________________ Mathew Partridge Technical Director Pro-Tech Dive College www.protechdivers.com www.tech-ccr.com Last edited by tecdivertraining : 10th April 2008 at 00:46.
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10th April 2008, 00:50	#44 (permalink)
tecdivertraining RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Dolphin Join Date: May 2005 Location: Phuket, Thailand Posts: 389	Re: VR3 BUH or VPM Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike) Mark, I assume that you are saying the people who went with the VR3 VPM were disappointed. I am in total agreement with that having own several VR3s and now sold them all of them. I currently have an X1 on order and will let you know how that one goes. In the mean time it's GF's for me... M I'm not disappointed with mine they work as well as I expected. I recently had the chance to dive with the X1 and I will be keeping my VR3 hope you like it more than I did. tap tap bump bump, thats not what I need deep in a wreck or cave. __________________ Mathew Partridge Technical Director Pro-Tech Dive College www.protechdivers.com www.tech-ccr.com
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10th April 2008, 03:14	#45 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,111	Re: VR3 BUH or VPM Quote: (Originally Posted by aainslie) Well, let's get to a few basic points: a) You don't like VPM because it's been modified twice. Yet you love Buhlmann which contains almost a century's worth of modifications from its origination as the Haldanian model. Nope, I do like VPMBE which is what I use all the time to plan ALL my big dives and I do like and trust vr3vpm (Which in the words of the creator of V-planner is similar to VPMB). I never said VPMBE was crap or that I didnt like or trust it. My comments were about earlier versions of VPM that didnt give enough deco. Quote: b) You don't like VPM because it hasn't been empirically tested as much as Buhlmann. Its not a case of 'not liking it' I simply made the point that it hadnt been tested as much as Buh - thats all. Testing is good. Proper testing is better. Proper testing is not done by sports divers in a non control group - thats my ONLY point re: testing and I cant see how anyone would disagree Quote: Is mere superiority of volume of empirical testing enough? yes in part it is. Models are best tested formally under controlled conditions not on sports divers under varying conditions, no control, TOOO many variables and poor/min reporting and correlation. Quote: Ross's software gets used a lot with no evidence of an unusually high level of bends and little evidence of ANY bends. theres no way you can quantify that with any degree of certainty as theres no way to capture all the incidents and look at the data look at any variations in the profiles followed gases used, hydration levels etc etc etc. Just looking at Ross list of dives Ive shown how its easy to asume the wrong data. If data collection is done by word of mouth its often just hearsay - which is in part one of the reasons why control studies are the best method. Quote: It may not be as much as the data behind Buhlmann, but don't you think it's suffficient? No I dont think its really sufficient and I dont think you will find anyone learned in the field who will agree that it is. Yes it does look like VPMBE works quite well but thats not really something we can quantify without proper study, and you can never study enough. Quote: It seems you pick your battles. On the first rationale (changes) you should be the first to disqualify Buhlmann. So - is occasional change enough to disqualify a model? if so, be consistent and disqualify Buhlmann. Especially if you use it with GF, which I'll bet you do. Again you are off track. Changes are not the issue. Changes are a good thing if they improve the no. of bends as it did with VPMX. I never said that a model is crap IF its been changed - that would be kinda stupid to suggest. Change is the way we improve. All I said re:vpx was it had undergone changes to make it more useful (stop bending divers) which it has - whats wrong with that?? Quote: I'm not going to go into your endless debates about who did what dive to what depth on what algorithm Theres been no debate here re: who did what dives. Who (anywhere or anytime) is debating that Ben did use VPM? er nobody. I posted Bens words - he used Zplanner. Who (anywhere or anytime) is debating Yamashiro dive was to 176m? In previous post Ross himself acknowledged that depth (the decostop) These facts are straight forward enough for you or anyone else to check. The only fact where theres any debate is CV dive depth at SraKeow - and for that I simply posted the link to his dive buddies dive report where he tells what happened - no debate was entered into. So honestly I dont know what these 'endless debates' are you mention. Quote: - your fixation on that is not really of much interest to me or most of the rest of us. another thing we see with people like you who jump into a discussion with an agenda is they use the word WE a lot fixation on what? (I put it to you that you are the one fixating on CV dive as for me its just a coincodence that its one of the dives incorrectly reported) So you have no interest in fact dives listed on V-planner website as vpm dives or dives to certain depth arent in fact either? Interesting. Personally I try to look at correct data when choosing or trusting a model. In addition if its not really of much interest to you - why are you talking? Sure sure one of the dives is one of the contentious ones debated before - It does apear that your fixating on that one fact - when you shouldnt as if you ignore that dive the rest of the errors (Bens zplanner dive and Yamashiro depth) stand independantly. This is exactly why I wrote in a previous post:- Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) It is indeed unfortunate, and im well aware of, the risk that seeing as CV dives are two of the dives on the list inaccurately reported that it could be seen as a personal cruisade - but its not, honestly. I havent for eg seen CV ever suggest he went to 190m on the yamashiro - so this is likely no more than Ross's typo error. alas you didnt read or wish to believe it Quote: Oh - and you DO have a serious ego. However since I'm occasionally accused of the same I should probably tread lightly there... Not necessary I never suggested I was anything more than intolerant and egotistical - BUT I do like to debate facts and logic I dont see any of those coming from a discussion about egos or personality - i suggest such topics are irelevant, when it comes to discussing facts figures and opinions, and shouldnt be brought up __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 10th April 2008 at 03:39.
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10th April 2008, 03:28	#46 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,111	Re: VR3 BUH or VPM Quote: (Originally Posted by tecdivertraining) So Just another walk in th park for my two guys in training, both diving vpm VR3 yesterday on exactly the same profile when one had had 18 mins of deco and the other 48 mins all setup is identical. having cleared the deco at 12m - 9m we moved to the final stop 6m and the one unit pushed us back to 12m for more stops??????? Both are the latest version computers with vpm I think I will be using my new software from now on, its called Mcdeco-on-the -fly You will be able to down load it soon from my website it in a super size version with extra relish. damn thats kinda worrying. Years ago I was doing a dive and at 10m I looked at my vr3 and it said i was at 20m. I was going to send it back but never got around to it. It never repeated the error again in all this time so I have no idea what the heck was going on. I was using an explorer once and on ascent at 80m it gave me a 2 min stop. after what felt like 2 mins i looked at it and it was still showing 2mins (2mins can seem a life time sometimes on deco) a few mins later I looked again and still showed 2 mins. The little pool of brown water collecting in the corner of the screen told me it was flooded and the display frozen. I had been sat there for probably 5+ mins ongassing like an idiot! This is one of the reasons I dive with a couple of comps (3) I figure chances of all 3 going south are small - if they do its gonna be a loooong deco PS you dont have time to have a McDECO you have too many students waiting! - how many certs you done this month? __________________ Get a girlfriend you sad twat - a Rebreather is an unfaithful mistress - dont blind yourself to her faults just because she goes down on you Last edited by Drmike : 10th April 2008 at 03:33.
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10th April 2008, 04:24	#47 (permalink)
Andy Del Classic KISSer Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia, Sunny Sydney Posts: 377	Re: VR3 BUH or VPM Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) I dived the Bhulman VR3s and I wasent overly impressed with the big jumps from deep to shalow stops and I hated the monster loading it gave you for helium so I egerly awaited the VPM-B upgrade Thanks for getting this back on topic for a little while, Mark! The issue is that VR3s have some sort of deco algorithm, but who knows what! Mine has done two trips back home to mother, after failing on dive #1, and then due to the VPM giving extraordinary amounts of extra deco. Isn't it interesting that some divers have found the opposite? In all my emails back and forth to the kind folks at Delta-P, they eventually admitted that their VPM wasn't VPM at all, but an emulation, due to the cost of buying the right to use it (this could be bunk as well...) and their version was closer to VPMB/E +3. At the time it was advertised as 'VPM', and I made a point that now saying VPMB/E +3 as a rough equivalent was akin to false advertising on their part. They took the VR back, played with it, gave me new 2007 software for free, and promptly forgot about me. Sigh. Some of my dive buddies (same boat ramp, same ocean) who have decades of diving experience in the 150-200ft range feel the VR3s they bought to be, at best, very disappointing and expensive toys. Seeing as respected and qualified hyperbaric physicians don't trust their deco schedule, it may behoove us all to do likewise. Lancer, get in the line to sell off your VRs! Shearwaters seem to work much better, using a Buhlmann algorithm that we can adapt, tweak and change as we like! __________________ Yellow - the colour of greatness!
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10th April 2008, 07:01	#48 (permalink)
Lancer4545 Closed Circuit Divers Aus Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Cairns QLD Australia Posts: 543	Re: VR3 BUH or VPM Thanks for the input but please lets not make this a slinging match and try and keep it on the topic. As evident by the number of replies it's obvious there are more than a few of us looking for the same answers.......This is a good place to try and work them out and a good time to do it!!! I received a reply from Al Wright from Delta P (Hi AL) and he has just told me the same as Andy Del has just put up. He also tells me had I followed either computer then I would have ended up with very similar run times. Which makes me think you can run the VR3BUH and start your stops shallower or pay a heap of extra money and start your stops deeper. Combine the 2 and you will be calling Matt for a McDeco, Large Fries and a McSlurry At this point I am not planning to part with any of my VR3s as I still think they are a great computer. If anything I am trying to work out what is the best way to use them for my diving. At the moment I am thinking of using both computers as before but doing all the deep stops as per the VR3VPM and clearing the deco on it, then doing half the remaining deco on the VR3BUH. Like someone once said, " After doing a long dive what's a few more minutes hanging there going to matter" I'd much prefer to be hanging at 6m reasonably comfortable than lying on the boat sucking O2 in pain!! Regards, Lance __________________ You can run but you can't hide! ISC Appointed Megalodon Dealer for East Australia http://www.closedcircuitdivers.com.au info@closedcircuitdivers.com.au
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10th April 2008, 07:51	#49 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,417	Re: VR3 BUH or VPM Quote: (Originally Posted by diverklondike) Mark, I assume that you are saying the people who went with the VR3 VPM were disappointed. I am in total agreement with that having own several VR3s and now sold them all of them. I currently have an X1 on order and will let you know how that one goes. In the mean time it's GF's for me... M Yes sorry, nothing to do with proper VPM. just the VR3 interpritation. ATB MArk __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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10th April 2008, 07:55	#50 (permalink)
Mark Chase I go down for ages Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kent Posts: 2,417	Re: VR3 BUH or VPM Quote: (Originally Posted by Lancer4545) Thanks for the input but please lets not make this a slinging match and try and keep it on the topic. As evident by the number of replies it's obvious there are more than a few of us looking for the same answers.......This is a good place to try and work them out and a good time to do it!!! I received a reply from Al Wright from Delta P (Hi AL) and he has just told me the same as Andy Del has just put up. He also tells me had I followed either computer then I would have ended up with very similar run times. Which makes me think you can run the VR3BUH and start your stops shallower or pay a heap of extra money and start your stops deeper. Combine the 2 and you will be calling Matt for a McDeco, Large Fries and a McSlurry At this point I am not planning to part with any of my VR3s as I still think they are a great computer. If anything I am trying to work out what is the best way to use them for my diving. At the moment I am thinking of using both computers as before but doing all the deep stops as per the VR3VPM and clearing the deco on it, then doing half the remaining deco on the VR3BUH. Like someone once said, " After doing a long dive what's a few more minutes hanging there going to matter" I'd much prefer to be hanging at 6m reasonably comfortable than lying on the boat sucking O2 in pain!! Regards, Lance I did exactly this prety much all the time i owned VR3s I went to the first deep stop then added stops inbetween the jumps. It messed with the TTS but never enough to anoy me. I was going to upgrade both my VR3s to VPM but as i say i wasent impressed. However in the end I baught a Hammer Head with GF deco built in. Having experianced GF deco i knew its was the way for me so I baught the Shearwater. VR3s a great computer but I prefer GF deco. ATB Mark __________________ Is it supposed to make that noise ? I took my unit to the dive shop and demanded they bolt on every thing that would fit. Join my elite diving teem and get a Tshirt "Doing It Chasey"Hammerhead Eccr Advanced Diving System
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