which computer is the best VR3 or HS explorer ?

***Beanie*** · 15th September 2005, 11:14

he he

I think that who ever has a VR3 and has no problems likes the VR3 and will defend it
and those with the HS and have no problems like the HS and defend it

I like my VR3

horses for courses and all that

Chris · 15th September 2005, 11:36

I picked up my VR3 second hand, and it was not even stolen.

:

Works for me, never had any problems with it, as for the interface I reckon I could teach a monkey to use it in 10 mins, isn’t that right CD

I am however looking forward to the VPM upgrade..

Cheers
Chris :

***schford*** · 15th September 2005, 11:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

May be I am missing something here, but:

You described exactly that: change mode then select gas even if it is the one you use as diluent. Sometimes even up to 4 steps more.
Why would you use trimix bail-out gas different than in diluent tank ? Just to make it more complicated ?

Phi,

a very common approach is to use heliair as a diluent - I am sure you would agree this is not an optimum bailout mix and one you would not replicate in your deep bail out gas.

Hence the need to change from CC to OC and then to choose the bailout gas you will be using.

The method for doing this on the HS is much much simpler than on the VR3. Please see explanation of how to do it on VR£ below

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Push and hold left button

Push and hold both buttons

Push right button to confirm

Now your on OC on the Diluent you chose

Then you have to Push and hold left button

Push both buttons

Now your into gas list

Then Push both buttons quickly three times to get to gas 0-9

One push of the right button will take you to Gas 2 1'st Bailout

A push of both buttons to take you to Gas on Gas off

A right button push to switch gas on

Push both buttons twice to get back to gas list

Push both buttons three times to get to 0-9

Push right button to move to gas 3 2nd Bailout

Push both buttons to go to gas on gas off

Push right button to switch on

Push both buttons and hold to save gas

Tick gas with right button to switch to OC bailout gas three.

(Ensure that Gas 3 is the deep bailout gas)

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

So it is less optimal on the VR-3 to push 2 buttons together to switch mode than the HS to hold button to... then select... then hold 3 seconds to confirm... Huhmm, I think I am missing something

It is a three step process on the VR3 not just pushing 2 buttons together to switch mode, which is the same number of steps as on the HS but I can then be on a different gas where as you cant on a VR3 without following that process above.

The VR3 is a good computer and better than the HS in some areas but ease of bailout isn't one of them.

Stuart

jdz · 15th September 2005, 13:13

As usual, my vote is for the Explorer... Gene rocks!!

The gas switch is easy, as Stuart mentioned previously.

When I was on the mod dolphin, I used mix "0" and when I bailed to OC, had to move to mix "5" (bottom gas) at depth and/or "6" travel or hot gas. This is because mix "0" used the O2 cell input.

Now with prism, no O2 input, I start with CCR mix "4" with setpoint and if I bail, I go to OC mix "5" etc... it has become simpler..

Cheers all, JDZ

decoweenie · 15th September 2005, 13:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

I am sure you would agree this is not an optimum bailout mix and one you would not replicate in your deep bail out gas.

"Optimum" in your sense means you blend a best-mix trimix stage for each deep dive unless they are at the same depth.

For me that means I have to dump the content of the stage and re-blend just about every week. Of course, that is not done. And I am sure others won't either.

Do you ? If you dive a 65m wreck one day and a 85m wreck the next, do you dump and re-blend ?

If not, what is the content of your trimix stage ?

As mentioned, I only use 10/50 for everything to 92m (second deepest wreck we have here) unless I feel energetic and fix 10/70 for the on-board but keep 10/50 as bail-out. Same tables and no need to recut.

Quote:

The method for doing this on the HS is much much simpler than on the VR3. Please see explanation of how to do it on VR£ below

You are right, I actually left out 2 pushes. The correct procedure is:

Push and hold left button for 1 sec to go to gas menu
Push and hold both buttons for 2 secs to switch mode
Push right button to confirm to confirm

So both units require a 3-step process.

I don't actually use a VR-3 for my own diving, just when doing Instructor training courses so I apologize that I forgot the right sequence.

But that brought up the good thing about the VR-3 is that you don't have to memorize anything concerning the menu as the options are prompted for you on the screen. So 6 months from now, I could pick up the computer and know exactly what to push to get what.

In contrast, I owned my first HS about 5 years ago and couldn't remember which screen does what (i.e. hold both button for 1-4?) if I don't use it for some time.

I just sold a brand new HS computer (5 mins ago to someone on this forum) that I was entertaining the thought of keeping to try the RGBM algorithm, but decided to sell it since I was showing it to someone a couple of nights ago, and couldn't remember which screen for adjust and which procedure to force a shut-down...

Quote:

The VR3 is a good computer and better than the HS in some areas but ease of bailout isn't one of them.

It requires the same amount of pushes. Mark was showing a different procedure...

***schford*** · 15th September 2005, 13:43

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

"Optimum" in your sense means you blend a best-mix trimix stage for each deep dive unless they are at the same depth.

For me that means I have to dump the content of the stage and re-blend just about every week. Of course, that is not done. And I am sure others won't either.

Do you ? If you dive a 65m wreck one day and a 85m wreck the next, do you dump and re-blend ?

If not, what is the content of your trimix stage ?

As mentioned, I only use 10/50 for everything to 92m (second deepest wreck we have here) unless I feel energetic and fix 10/70 for the on-board but keep 10/50 as bail-out. Same tables and no need to recut.

I agree with the strategy of a standardisied bailout mix - this would be optimised for deepest wreck in the typical range to give me a good end, but slightly reducing he content to ease off gasing and giving me a good 02 % eg i note yours is 92m so it would be circa 16/46 (worked out in my head quickly)

But then for my dil these days I would just pick the best heliair mix for an END of less than 30, as accuratly mixing 2l and 3l cylinders is a pain in the asse and time consuming and heliair is so quick. So the dil I would run for a 92m dive would probably 8/60 - this is definatly not an optimum bail out mix. Where as my bailout stage is.

Obivously there is no right and wrong way but that is how I would do it.

Stuart

trey · 15th September 2005, 14:33

I tend to think guys in the US might be better off with the HS just for sheer supportability (plus it costs less)...and yes, Gene rocks. Wonderful person to talk too...and I guess that's my point here...you CAN actually get him on the phone. And if you have the nationwide free long distance thing, well...it don't cost nothin'!

decoweenie · 15th September 2005, 14:50

Quote: (Originally Posted by schford)

...92m so it would be circa 16/46...

Personally, I don't push the PO2 (i.e. 1.62) that high on deep dives. Especially for bail-out in stressed situation (i.e. high RMV at the deepest portion of the dive).

Quote:

...the dil I would run for a 92m dive would probably 8/60 - this is definatly not an optimum bail out mix. Where as my bailout stage is.

So in another word, you would use 8/60 for diluent and ~16/46 for OC-bail-out ? Interesting...

Why so low fiO2 in the diluent ?

Quote:

Obivously there is no right and wrong way but that is how I would do it.

Get out more often and you might hear about the "Doing It Right" way...

ADDited:

Just a personal suggestion...

If you can't seem to blend accurately in smaller tanks, just blend in larger tanks or twins. Then pump the trimix thru the compressor to your Rebreather tanks.

Joseph Grech · 15th September 2005, 15:06

Ohh !!!! now I am confused. So then which computer fits me most ?

***jradomski*** · 15th September 2005, 15:07

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

"Optimum" in your sense means you blend a best-mix trimix stage for each deep dive unless they are at the same depth.

For me that means I have to dump the content of the stage and re-blend just about every week. Of course, that is not done. And I am sure others won't either.

Do you ? If you dive a 65m wreck one day and a 85m wreck the next, do you dump and re-blend ?

If not, what is the content of your trimix stage ?

As mentioned, I only use 10/50 for everything to 92m (second deepest wreck we have here) unless I feel energetic and fix 10/70 for the on-board but keep 10/50 as bail-out. Same tables and no need to recut.

You are right, I actually left out 2 pushes. The correct procedure is:

Push and hold left button for 1 sec to go to gas menu
Push and hold both buttons for 2 secs to switch mode
Push right button to confirm to confirm

So both units require a 3-step process.

I don't actually use a VR-3 for my own diving, just when doing Instructor training courses so I apologize that I forgot the right sequence.

But that brought up the good thing about the VR-3 is that you don't have to memorize anything concerning the menu as the options are prompted for you on the screen. So 6 months from now, I could pick up the computer and know exactly what to push to get what.

In contrast, I owned my first HS about 5 years ago and couldn't remember which screen does what (i.e. hold both button for 1-4?) if I don't use it for some time.

I just sold a brand new HS computer (5 mins ago to someone on this forum) that I was entertaining the thought of keeping to try the RGBM algorithm, but decided to sell it since I was showing it to someone a couple of nights ago, and couldn't remember which screen for adjust and which procedure to force a shut-down...

It requires the same amount of pushes. Mark was showing a different procedure...

Phi,
When I sell an explorer, I make up a laminated Cheat Sheet for my customers.. I'm attaching it since its useful for others... I fold it so its two sided..

15th September 2005, 11:14	#31 (permalink)
*Beanie* Gallery Administrator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,312	he he I think that who ever has a VR3 and has no problems likes the VR3 and will defend it and those with the HS and have no problems like the HS and defend it I like my VR3 horses for courses and all that __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk
(Offline)

15th September 2005, 11:36	#32 (permalink)
Chris Go Nude Or Go Home Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Megalodon Prism Topaz Sport Kiss Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 615	I picked up my VR3 second hand, and it was not even stolen. : Works for me, never had any problems with it, as for the interface I reckon I could teach a monkey to use it in 10 mins, isn’t that right CD I am however looking forward to the VPM upgrade.. Cheers Chris : __________________ Megalodon Sorb and Sensors whilst in Australia www.divetub.com.au Diving & Photography @ www.uwphotog.com
(Offline)

15th September 2005, 11:52	#33 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) May be I am missing something here, but: You described exactly that: change mode then select gas even if it is the one you use as diluent. Sometimes even up to 4 steps more. Why would you use trimix bail-out gas different than in diluent tank ? Just to make it more complicated ? Phi, a very common approach is to use heliair as a diluent - I am sure you would agree this is not an optimum bailout mix and one you would not replicate in your deep bail out gas. Hence the need to change from CC to OC and then to choose the bailout gas you will be using. The method for doing this on the HS is much much simpler than on the VR3. Please see explanation of how to do it on VR£ below Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Push and hold left button Push and hold both buttons Push right button to confirm Now your on OC on the Diluent you chose Then you have to Push and hold left button Push both buttons Now your into gas list Then Push both buttons quickly three times to get to gas 0-9 One push of the right button will take you to Gas 2 1'st Bailout A push of both buttons to take you to Gas on Gas off A right button push to switch gas on Push both buttons twice to get back to gas list Push both buttons three times to get to 0-9 Push right button to move to gas 3 2nd Bailout Push both buttons to go to gas on gas off Push right button to switch on Push both buttons and hold to save gas Tick gas with right button to switch to OC bailout gas three. (Ensure that Gas 3 is the deep bailout gas) Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) So it is less optimal on the VR-3 to push 2 buttons together to switch mode than the HS to hold button to... then select... then hold 3 seconds to confirm... Huhmm, I think I am missing something It is a three step process on the VR3 not just pushing 2 buttons together to switch mode, which is the same number of steps as on the HS but I can then be on a different gas where as you cant on a VR3 without following that process above. The VR3 is a good computer and better than the HS in some areas but ease of bailout isn't one of them. Stuart
(Offline)

15th September 2005, 13:13	#34 (permalink)
jdz Prism Cave Diver Current Rebreather/s: Prism Topaz Dolphin Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 223	As usual, my vote is for the Explorer... Gene rocks!! The gas switch is easy, as Stuart mentioned previously. When I was on the mod dolphin, I used mix "0" and when I bailed to OC, had to move to mix "5" (bottom gas) at depth and/or "6" travel or hot gas. This is because mix "0" used the O2 cell input. Now with prism, no O2 input, I start with CCR mix "4" with setpoint and if I bail, I go to OC mix "5" etc... it has become simpler.. Cheers all, JDZ
(Offline)

15th September 2005, 13:22	#35 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) I am sure you would agree this is not an optimum bailout mix and one you would not replicate in your deep bail out gas. "Optimum" in your sense means you blend a best-mix trimix stage for each deep dive unless they are at the same depth. For me that means I have to dump the content of the stage and re-blend just about every week. Of course, that is not done. And I am sure others won't either. Do you ? If you dive a 65m wreck one day and a 85m wreck the next, do you dump and re-blend ? If not, what is the content of your trimix stage ? As mentioned, I only use 10/50 for everything to 92m (second deepest wreck we have here) unless I feel energetic and fix 10/70 for the on-board but keep 10/50 as bail-out. Same tables and no need to recut. Quote: The method for doing this on the HS is much much simpler than on the VR3. Please see explanation of how to do it on VR£ below You are right, I actually left out 2 pushes. The correct procedure is: Push and hold left button for 1 sec to go to gas menu Push and hold both buttons for 2 secs to switch mode Push right button to confirm to confirm So both units require a 3-step process. I don't actually use a VR-3 for my own diving, just when doing Instructor training courses so I apologize that I forgot the right sequence. But that brought up the good thing about the VR-3 is that you don't have to memorize anything concerning the menu as the options are prompted for you on the screen. So 6 months from now, I could pick up the computer and know exactly what to push to get what. In contrast, I owned my first HS about 5 years ago and couldn't remember which screen does what (i.e. hold both button for 1-4?) if I don't use it for some time. I just sold a brand new HS computer (5 mins ago to someone on this forum) that I was entertaining the thought of keeping to try the RGBM algorithm, but decided to sell it since I was showing it to someone a couple of nights ago, and couldn't remember which screen for adjust and which procedure to force a shut-down... Quote: The VR3 is a good computer and better than the HS in some areas but ease of bailout isn't one of them. It requires the same amount of pushes. Mark was showing a different procedure...
(Offline)

15th September 2005, 13:43	#36 (permalink)
*schford* RBW Founder Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,564	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) "Optimum" in your sense means you blend a best-mix trimix stage for each deep dive unless they are at the same depth. For me that means I have to dump the content of the stage and re-blend just about every week. Of course, that is not done. And I am sure others won't either. Do you ? If you dive a 65m wreck one day and a 85m wreck the next, do you dump and re-blend ? If not, what is the content of your trimix stage ? As mentioned, I only use 10/50 for everything to 92m (second deepest wreck we have here) unless I feel energetic and fix 10/70 for the on-board but keep 10/50 as bail-out. Same tables and no need to recut. I agree with the strategy of a standardisied bailout mix - this would be optimised for deepest wreck in the typical range to give me a good end, but slightly reducing he content to ease off gasing and giving me a good 02 % eg i note yours is 92m so it would be circa 16/46 (worked out in my head quickly) But then for my dil these days I would just pick the best heliair mix for an END of less than 30, as accuratly mixing 2l and 3l cylinders is a pain in the asse and time consuming and heliair is so quick. So the dil I would run for a 92m dive would probably 8/60 - this is definatly not an optimum bail out mix. Where as my bailout stage is. Obivously there is no right and wrong way but that is how I would do it. Stuart
(Offline)

15th September 2005, 14:33	#37 (permalink)
trey Total NOOB Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 108	I tend to think guys in the US might be better off with the HS just for sheer supportability (plus it costs less)...and yes, Gene rocks. Wonderful person to talk too...and I guess that's my point here...you CAN actually get him on the phone. And if you have the nationwide free long distance thing, well...it don't cost nothin'!
(Offline)

15th September 2005, 14:50	#38 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,487	Quote: (Originally Posted by schford) ...92m so it would be circa 16/46... Personally, I don't push the PO2 (i.e. 1.62) that high on deep dives. Especially for bail-out in stressed situation (i.e. high RMV at the deepest portion of the dive). Quote: ...the dil I would run for a 92m dive would probably 8/60 - this is definatly not an optimum bail out mix. Where as my bailout stage is. So in another word, you would use 8/60 for diluent and ~16/46 for OC-bail-out ? Interesting... Why so low fiO2 in the diluent ? Quote: Obivously there is no right and wrong way but that is how I would do it. Get out more often and you might hear about the "Doing It Right" way... ADDited: Just a personal suggestion... If you can't seem to blend accurately in smaller tanks, just blend in larger tanks or twins. Then pump the trimix thru the compressor to your Rebreather tanks.
(Offline)

15th September 2005, 15:06	#39 (permalink)
Joseph Grech Joseph Grech Current Rebreather/s: Azimuth Other Rebreather/s: Azimuth Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Malta Posts: 104	Ohh !!!! now I am confused. So then which computer fits me most ?
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