HS Explorer vs VR3

ForTheFight · 17th July 2007, 11:55

Hmm...doesnt sound like there is much love for the HSE, looks like Ill be getting a VR.

On another note, Dave S, the phrase "Paragon of Unreliability" is great

***jradomski*** · 17th July 2007, 12:26

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Between the two? A VR-3, because it'll probably actually work.....

I'd never trust an Explorer to actually function on an given day of the week. I put them into the same category as the "Paragon of Unreliability" Paragon second stage on the KISS BOV..... just not something to trust. I hated mine. Even when it (very rarely) worked, it was a pain in the ass to use. Try pushing those buttons with thick gloves on....

Like to play with a Sherwater, but am happy with the VR-3's that I have (one brick, one "small"). Have had one return in all the time I've had them (the brick is how old?) and that was just one button that I knocked out on the small one. Was my own fault.

Dave

i found the EXACT oposite.. I couldn;t count on the VR3 working on any given day.. I'll admit Gne had issues with the xplorer.. but when you got one that worked it worked reliably..

He seems to have sorted all the issues out (almost all were related to the case which he did not design).. I have not heard about any problems since about jun/july of last year except your normal odd unit out which is normal.. My current explorer has atleast 500 dives on it (probably more),without a single issue.. I Never got more than a handfull of dives in a row on the vr3 beofre it screwed up.. When it worked it worked OK although I didnt care for the shape of the deco profile.. The battery life on the explorer is also great.. right now I have well over 100 hours active time on the battery plus several months of "sleep" time and the voltage is still acceptable.. The only negative I can say is that the backlight is useless..

Dave Sutton · 17th July 2007, 14:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

i found the EXACT oposite.. I couldn;t count on the VR3 working on any given day.. I'll admit Gne had issues with the xplorer.. but when you got one that worked it worked reliably...

I just got sick of seeing "X" number of divers being used as test articles for a piece of hardware that was released without adequate testing (not that any other manufacturer would use the diving population in general as a substitute for testing though..... see threads here and there for other "Devices Electronic" that are undergoing the umpteenth "upgrade" because they sucked for the first several ititerations....

). I hate to spend $xK for the privilege of testing equipment to see if it's reliable.

We suffered in excess of a 100% failure of these things when they were released. Guys got tired of sending them back for the xth time. on one trip we had 6 of them aboard, and every one failed the first day. Just unacceptable. If they are better now... then they are better! First impressions and all of that...

Gene is a good guy, for what that is worth. The Explorer is feature laden, and if they are reliable now, then that's good news.

Sounds like Bruce has the hot item now though. I'd try a Sherwater if I did not already have all my stuff set to put PP02 data thru 2 pin connectors to the VR-3's. Just too much stuff to change.

Dave

Deepwreck · 17th July 2007, 14:23

I just sent mine back yesterday, because the unit flooded in 20feet of water. This is the Third time the unit has failed to work for me. A buddy is letting me use his VR3 so the trip I am going on this next week won't be on tables totally.

On another note, I love the RGBM and the way I have deep stops for deco. I would rather stay deep and deco gradualy on the way up as opposed to getting shallow and staying longer. I don't have a lot of time on the VR3 as I have only used it twice, but the way I had it setup I didn't like the deco model.

***jradomski*** · 17th July 2007, 15:51

Quote: (Originally Posted by Deepwreck)

I just sent mine back yesterday, because the unit flooded in 20feet of water. This is the Third time the unit has failed to work for me. A buddy is letting me use his VR3 so the trip I am going on this next week won't be on tables totally.

On another note, I love the RGBM and the way I have deep stops for deco. I would rather stay deep and deco gradualy on the way up as opposed to getting shallow and staying longer. I don't have a lot of time on the VR3 as I have only used it twice, but the way I had it setup I didn't like the deco model.

I'm curiious.. How old is the unit?? (just to see if its the older case or a case after he changed the manufacturer parameters).. He switched sometime around june/july/aug of last year.. I don't remember exactly..

Dave Sutton · 17th July 2007, 15:56

Joe, what problems did your VR-3 give you? Other than the one button getting busted off (my fault), both my brick and my "modern" VR-3's have been bulletproof, and my "modern" one is from the first production run, still bright aluminum and not the grey anodized version so it's as old as a VR-3 can be. Dunno the software version, I'll need to boot it up later and see. I'll have both the brick and the new one on the trip Friday so we can look at them all (including your Explorer).

Question, I guess, is hardware or software and what?

Dave

***jradomski*** · 17th July 2007, 18:22

Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton)

Joe, what problems did your VR-3 give you? Other than the one button getting busted off (my fault), both my brick and my "modern" VR-3's have been bulletproof, and my "modern" one is from the first production run, still bright aluminum and not the grey anodized version so it's as old as a VR-3 can be. Dunno the software version, I'll need to boot it up later and see. I'll have both the brick and the new one on the trip Friday so we can look at them all (including your Explorer).

Question, I guess, is hardware or software and what?

Dave

I had both the newer annodized ones, and one of the first al ones (new style) ever shipped.. I had it before OMS had theirs.. It even went back to deltap for a BGM upgrade..

I had depth issues.. similiar to what some people have seen on the metal HH (getting stuck at a shallow depth), I have also had times where it just stopped registering depth, or depth being way off.. I had the buttons pop off and fly across the room m(well thats a bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea) and of course the buttons getting stuck (the button issue getting stuck was a regular occurance)..

I had lots of lock ups until I started using conductive grease on the battery cap..

The worse experience I had with the VR3 was when I was teaching a tech rebreather class back in 2004, there were 6 vr3s and 4 of them failed during the class.. Mine didn't fail becasue it never was used (so in reality 4 of 5 failed)..

Deepwreck · 17th July 2007, 19:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski)

I'm curiious.. How old is the unit?? (just to see if its the older case or a case after he changed the manufacturer parameters).. He switched sometime around june/july/aug of last year.. I don't remember exactly..

I purchased the unit in June of 2005. In 2005 I had a problem with the unit not giving deco when I knew there should be deco. 180' for 30 min - no deco, I think there might be a problem. I sent it back and they fixed the problem and sent it back to me. Since they I havent dived it much, but more problems where on the way. The next time the screen when black in some places and the unit stopped working. Now the unit is flooded and I had to send it back in to have them fix it.

I can say that they are great at helping with the problem and getting my unit back to be in a timely mannor, and I love the big screen and RGBM, but if this keeps happening Ill get something else.

***jradomski*** · 17th July 2007, 22:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by Deepwreck)

I purchased the unit in June of 2005. In 2005 I had a problem with the unit not giving deco when I knew there should be deco. 180' for 30 min - no deco, I think there might be a problem. I sent it back and they fixed the problem and sent it back to me. Since they I havent dived it much, but more problems where on the way. The next time the screen when black in some places and the unit stopped working. Now the unit is flooded and I had to send it back in to have them fix it.

I can say that they are great at helping with the problem and getting my unit back to be in a timely mannor, and I love the big screen and RGBM, but if this keeps happening Ill get something else.

Ok it means you probably had an older case.. The issue with losing part of the screen was Gene following the recommendation of the Display manufacturer.. they recommended a specific connector, unfortunately it didn't handle strong vibrations all that well.. He switched to a mil spec connector and has to hand modify each LCD, but no more disappearing segments..

**luxrok** · 18th July 2007, 01:56

I have had my vr3 for a couple of years. I think I have 150-175 OC dives on it wit no problems. Ice, cave, and NE wreck. When I got my MEG I got the ccr mode and am happy with it. I was on a dive with some friends this weekend, they all had Explorers and I had my vr3. They all had seemingly gentle profiles that gave them stops every 10 feet and I had the typical vr3 profile, stops at 91,65, 30 and 15. Our dive was 45minutes at 145fsw at 1.1.

I was into the warmer water faster then them, however I would have preferred the more gradual profile. Who knows.... I came out of the water feeling crappy with some pain in the elbow. Not sure if it was from holding on to the anchor line for 40 minutes or if it was from something more sinister. Ended up bagging the second dive on account of the elbow. I might look into the bubble algo for my vr3 next.

I am sure this is a completely useless post. 150+ pain free dives and 1 wonky one and I am thinking.

Hans

17th July 2007, 11:55	#11 (permalink)
ForTheFight What's a custom title? Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Dolphin Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Virginia Posts: 220	Re: HS Explorer vs VR3 Hmm...doesnt sound like there is much love for the HSE, looks like Ill be getting a VR. On another note, Dave S, the phrase "Paragon of Unreliability" is great __________________ This post may be up to 80% accurate...
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17th July 2007, 12:26	#12 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,888	Re: HS Explorer vs VR3 Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Between the two? A VR-3, because it'll probably actually work..... I'd never trust an Explorer to actually function on an given day of the week. I put them into the same category as the "Paragon of Unreliability" Paragon second stage on the KISS BOV..... just not something to trust. I hated mine. Even when it (very rarely) worked, it was a pain in the ass to use. Try pushing those buttons with thick gloves on.... Like to play with a Sherwater, but am happy with the VR-3's that I have (one brick, one "small"). Have had one return in all the time I've had them (the brick is how old?) and that was just one button that I knocked out on the small one. Was my own fault. Dave i found the EXACT oposite.. I couldn;t count on the VR3 working on any given day.. I'll admit Gne had issues with the xplorer.. but when you got one that worked it worked reliably.. He seems to have sorted all the issues out (almost all were related to the case which he did not design).. I have not heard about any problems since about jun/july of last year except your normal odd unit out which is normal.. My current explorer has atleast 500 dives on it (probably more),without a single issue.. I Never got more than a handfull of dives in a row on the vr3 beofre it screwed up.. When it worked it worked OK although I didnt care for the shape of the deco profile.. The battery life on the explorer is also great.. right now I have well over 100 hours active time on the battery plus several months of "sleep" time and the voltage is still acceptable.. The only negative I can say is that the backlight is useless.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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17th July 2007, 14:11	#13 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Membership Cancelled Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,637	Re: HS Explorer vs VR3 Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) i found the EXACT oposite.. I couldn;t count on the VR3 working on any given day.. I'll admit Gne had issues with the xplorer.. but when you got one that worked it worked reliably... I just got sick of seeing "X" number of divers being used as test articles for a piece of hardware that was released without adequate testing (not that any other manufacturer would use the diving population in general as a substitute for testing though..... see threads here and there for other "Devices Electronic" that are undergoing the umpteenth "upgrade" because they sucked for the first several ititerations.... ). I hate to spend $xK for the privilege of testing equipment to see if it's reliable. We suffered in excess of a 100% failure of these things when they were released. Guys got tired of sending them back for the xth time. on one trip we had 6 of them aboard, and every one failed the first day. Just unacceptable. If they are better now... then they are better! First impressions and all of that... Gene is a good guy, for what that is worth. The Explorer is feature laden, and if they are reliable now, then that's good news. Sounds like Bruce has the hot item now though. I'd try a Sherwater if I did not already have all my stuff set to put PP02 data thru 2 pin connectors to the VR-3's. Just too much stuff to change. Dave Last edited by Dave Sutton : 17th July 2007 at 14:47.
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17th July 2007, 14:23	#14 (permalink)
Deepwreck Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 112	Re: HS Explorer vs VR3 I just sent mine back yesterday, because the unit flooded in 20feet of water. This is the Third time the unit has failed to work for me. A buddy is letting me use his VR3 so the trip I am going on this next week won't be on tables totally. On another note, I love the RGBM and the way I have deep stops for deco. I would rather stay deep and deco gradualy on the way up as opposed to getting shallow and staying longer. I don't have a lot of time on the VR3 as I have only used it twice, but the way I had it setup I didn't like the deco model. __________________ OC is for Bailout! Go Big, then go home.
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17th July 2007, 15:51	#15 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,888	Re: HS Explorer vs VR3 Quote: (Originally Posted by Deepwreck) I just sent mine back yesterday, because the unit flooded in 20feet of water. This is the Third time the unit has failed to work for me. A buddy is letting me use his VR3 so the trip I am going on this next week won't be on tables totally. On another note, I love the RGBM and the way I have deep stops for deco. I would rather stay deep and deco gradualy on the way up as opposed to getting shallow and staying longer. I don't have a lot of time on the VR3 as I have only used it twice, but the way I had it setup I didn't like the deco model. I'm curiious.. How old is the unit?? (just to see if its the older case or a case after he changed the manufacturer parameters).. He switched sometime around june/july/aug of last year.. I don't remember exactly.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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17th July 2007, 15:56	#16 (permalink)
Dave Sutton Membership Cancelled Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss MK 15.X rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Azimuth Home Build Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Narragansett, Rhode Island and Hackettstown, New Jersey Posts: 2,637	Re: HS Explorer vs VR3 Joe, what problems did your VR-3 give you? Other than the one button getting busted off (my fault), both my brick and my "modern" VR-3's have been bulletproof, and my "modern" one is from the first production run, still bright aluminum and not the grey anodized version so it's as old as a VR-3 can be. Dunno the software version, I'll need to boot it up later and see. I'll have both the brick and the new one on the trip Friday so we can look at them all (including your Explorer). Question, I guess, is hardware or software and what? Dave Last edited by Dave Sutton : 17th July 2007 at 15:58.
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17th July 2007, 18:22	#17 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,888	Re: HS Explorer vs VR3 Quote: (Originally Posted by Dave Sutton) Joe, what problems did your VR-3 give you? Other than the one button getting busted off (my fault), both my brick and my "modern" VR-3's have been bulletproof, and my "modern" one is from the first production run, still bright aluminum and not the grey anodized version so it's as old as a VR-3 can be. Dunno the software version, I'll need to boot it up later and see. I'll have both the brick and the new one on the trip Friday so we can look at them all (including your Explorer). Question, I guess, is hardware or software and what? Dave I had both the newer annodized ones, and one of the first al ones (new style) ever shipped.. I had it before OMS had theirs.. It even went back to deltap for a BGM upgrade.. I had depth issues.. similiar to what some people have seen on the metal HH (getting stuck at a shallow depth), I have also had times where it just stopped registering depth, or depth being way off.. I had the buttons pop off and fly across the room m(well thats a bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea) and of course the buttons getting stuck (the button issue getting stuck was a regular occurance).. I had lots of lock ups until I started using conductive grease on the battery cap.. The worse experience I had with the VR3 was when I was teaching a tech rebreather class back in 2004, there were 6 vr3s and 4 of them failed during the class.. Mine didn't fail becasue it never was used (so in reality 4 of 5 failed).. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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17th July 2007, 19:16	#18 (permalink)
Deepwreck Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 112	Re: HS Explorer vs VR3 Quote: (Originally Posted by jradomski) I'm curiious.. How old is the unit?? (just to see if its the older case or a case after he changed the manufacturer parameters).. He switched sometime around june/july/aug of last year.. I don't remember exactly.. I purchased the unit in June of 2005. In 2005 I had a problem with the unit not giving deco when I knew there should be deco. 180' for 30 min - no deco, I think there might be a problem. I sent it back and they fixed the problem and sent it back to me. Since they I havent dived it much, but more problems where on the way. The next time the screen when black in some places and the unit stopped working. Now the unit is flooded and I had to send it back in to have them fix it. I can say that they are great at helping with the problem and getting my unit back to be in a timely mannor, and I love the big screen and RGBM, but if this keeps happening Ill get something else. __________________ OC is for Bailout! Go Big, then go home.
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17th July 2007, 22:01	#19 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,888	Re: HS Explorer vs VR3 Quote: (Originally Posted by Deepwreck) I purchased the unit in June of 2005. In 2005 I had a problem with the unit not giving deco when I knew there should be deco. 180' for 30 min - no deco, I think there might be a problem. I sent it back and they fixed the problem and sent it back to me. Since they I havent dived it much, but more problems where on the way. The next time the screen when black in some places and the unit stopped working. Now the unit is flooded and I had to send it back in to have them fix it. I can say that they are great at helping with the problem and getting my unit back to be in a timely mannor, and I love the big screen and RGBM, but if this keeps happening Ill get something else. Ok it means you probably had an older case.. The issue with losing part of the screen was Gene following the recommendation of the Display manufacturer.. they recommended a specific connector, unfortunately it didn't handle strong vibrations all that well.. He switched to a mil spec connector and has to hand modify each LCD, but no more disappearing segments.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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18th July 2007, 01:56	#20 (permalink)
luxrok Supporting Member Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Playa del Carmen Posts: 66	Re: HS Explorer vs VR3 I have had my vr3 for a couple of years. I think I have 150-175 OC dives on it wit no problems. Ice, cave, and NE wreck. When I got my MEG I got the ccr mode and am happy with it. I was on a dive with some friends this weekend, they all had Explorers and I had my vr3. They all had seemingly gentle profiles that gave them stops every 10 feet and I had the typical vr3 profile, stops at 91,65, 30 and 15. Our dive was 45minutes at 145fsw at 1.1. I was into the warmer water faster then them, however I would have preferred the more gradual profile. Who knows.... I came out of the water feeling crappy with some pain in the elbow. Not sure if it was from holding on to the anchor line for 40 minutes or if it was from something more sinister. Ended up bagging the second dive on account of the elbow. I might look into the bubble algo for my vr3 next. I am sure this is a completely useless post. 150+ pain free dives and 1 wonky one and I am thinking. Hans __________________ Quiet Diver: A Cave Diving Blog Close Circuit Rebreather Apparel The whole business of authority is to interfere in other people's business.
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