Vpm Vr3

***schford*** · 5th August 2005, 00:39

So a VR3 with a modern bubble algo (VPM) will be more than the current VR3 with the dated (but I guess provenish) deco algo.....hmmmmm

Hands up I am biased but I think the HS Explorer looks good value!

Stuart

Andy M · 5th August 2005, 01:01

Quote: (Originally Posted by Barrie Law)

What do you consider a reasonable price for VPM-B given Delta P will install the hardware and the software and pressure test your Vr3 before returning it to you?

I dont understand why a hardware upgrade is needed to do VPM-B. Does it really take that much more computer power over basic Buhlmann?

decoweenie · 5th August 2005, 01:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy M)

I dont understand why a hardware upgrade is needed to do VPM-B. Does it really take that much more computer power over basic Buhlmann?

I don't know about the electrical power, but I know the algorithm requires more iterations.

ZHL is very straight forward, single-pass for each tissue with the only iteration is the stop time until ceiling is cleared.

I agree that 200 quid is taking a piss, but again, it is the seller-market as it is the only game in town (color screen, bubble algorithm) aside from the HS computer.

***jradomski*** · 5th August 2005, 01:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie)

I don't know about the electrical power, but I know the algorithm requires more iterations.

ZHL is very straight forward, single-pass for each tissue with the only iteration is the stop time until ceiling is cleared.

I agree that 200 quid is taking a piss, but again, it is the seller-market as it is the only game in town (color screen, bubble algorithm) aside from the HS computer.

read my earlier post.. the vr3 that I pictured has the same series processor as the explorer (the vr3 processor pictured is actually faster).. and the slower processor easily handles RGBM which is extremely cpu intensive...

(there is one section of code in VPM that takes alot of CPU time, that can be solved by an approximation which is whats used in RGBM)

If others can do it cheaply so can delta p if they WANT.. in my mind 200 quid is a bit steep for a software update but its their company - makes the explorer an even bigger bargain cosidering the full blown unit only retails for $1300 us... The market will probably determine if they made a good decision or pissed off alot of people, I know I haven't recommended the vr3 for some time (I feel like crap if I follow their deco exactlyand was waiting for vpm myself, with the prices anticipated I'll probably ebay it (even though my ugly mug is in a bunch of the adds they use (pic from zero g)... ),
If their computer truely follows the simulator posted, I definately don't like the way conservatism is handled (by examining the decompiled the java app).
I would expect to pay 200-300 dollars with a hardware update (more for a total swap, but that should be a choice), considerably less for software..

Getting people to upgrade also HELPS the manufacturer, the more versions you have to maintain the costlier it is.. Your better off supporting as few software versions as possible.. That is primarily the driving force for manufacturers to offer people reasonable software upgrade paths..

even people that udated their hammerheads (as another example) with complete new electonics AND wrist cases (and in some instances rewiired permanantly to the head) only paid $400-$450 per unit or less..

Drmike · 5th August 2005, 02:07

"The only computer you will ever need"

Class action anyone???

***jradomski*** · 5th August 2005, 02:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike)

"The only computer you will ever need"

Class action anyone???

That was what they were selling...

DepthCharge · 5th August 2005, 03:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by Padowan)

Blimey, those prices are high!

So if you have an old VR3, pre v2 software, you're expected to pay £660 for an upgrade SWOP? You can nearly get a new unit for that price?

I'd rather sell mine on e-bay for £500 and then buy a new one!

That seems to be the standard for customer service in England/Europe. No discount for current customers. I had to send in a wing to DiveRite for repair. They quoted me a price, I sent in the wing. It was an older sonoform wing, that they could no longer repair. For $20.00 more than the repair quote they sent me a new wing (about 1/3 cost of new one). Now that's customer service.
Later,
DC

Barrie Law · 5th August 2005, 16:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by Barrie Law)

The info I have is VPM-B will be available from the !st of September and will cost as follows:

Vr3 with version 3.0 software from new 193 stg

Vr3 with version 2.0 software, needs new board 270 stg

Vr3 with earlier software cannot be upgraded , althought a factory swop with your old unit
for a new Vr3 VPM-B 660 stg

Cheers

The prices I listed are retail prices within Europe and include UK goverment VAT @ 17.5%.
This is not applicable to those outside the EEC and so should be deducted from the price, you would have to check locally for any tax due!!
Getting cheaper already.....for some!!

Cheers

***jradomski*** · 5th August 2005, 20:29

Quote: (Originally Posted by Barrie Law)

The prices I listed are retail prices within Europe and include UK goverment VAT @ 17.5%.
This is not applicable to those outside the EEC and so should be deducted from the price, you would have to check locally for any tax due!!
Getting cheaper already.....for some!!

Cheers

deductibg the VAT, to us in the us (with todays exchange rates) thats just under $300 for a software only upgrade

for the swap out..
again deducting the VAT its $999 USD.. What a bargain

even deducting the "option" price a $700 premium is pretty obscene.... Might as well fleabay the unit.. It might come out cheaper... So much for keeping the CURRENT customer's happy...

I agree with depthcharge...

Phil Ennis · 5th August 2005, 22:45

Has anybody sent this link to Kevin Gurr? It would be interesting to hear his thoughts on the matter.

5th August 2005, 00:39	#21 (permalink)
*schford* Despotic Overlord Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Sport Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 3,687	So a VR3 with a modern bubble algo (VPM) will be more than the current VR3 with the dated (but I guess provenish) deco algo.....hmmmmm Hands up I am biased but I think the HS Explorer looks good value! Stuart
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5th August 2005, 01:01	#22 (permalink)
Andy M Dude Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Cambridge, UK Posts: 424	Quote: (Originally Posted by Barrie Law) What do you consider a reasonable price for VPM-B given Delta P will install the hardware and the software and pressure test your Vr3 before returning it to you? I dont understand why a hardware upgrade is needed to do VPM-B. Does it really take that much more computer power over basic Buhlmann? __________________ Know your PO2 at all times
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5th August 2005, 01:11	#23 (permalink)
decoweenie Crash Test Dummy Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Cairo Posts: 5,510	Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy M) I dont understand why a hardware upgrade is needed to do VPM-B. Does it really take that much more computer power over basic Buhlmann? I don't know about the electrical power, but I know the algorithm requires more iterations. ZHL is very straight forward, single-pass for each tissue with the only iteration is the stop time until ceiling is cleared. I agree that 200 quid is taking a piss, but again, it is the seller-market as it is the only game in town (color screen, bubble algorithm) aside from the HS computer. __________________ "...after a while you get bored offering advice to a bull that like to keep butting the fence with its head rather than walking through the open gate..." - Rebreather World PM
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5th August 2005, 01:32	#24 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,998	Quote: (Originally Posted by decoweenie) I don't know about the electrical power, but I know the algorithm requires more iterations. ZHL is very straight forward, single-pass for each tissue with the only iteration is the stop time until ceiling is cleared. I agree that 200 quid is taking a piss, but again, it is the seller-market as it is the only game in town (color screen, bubble algorithm) aside from the HS computer. read my earlier post.. the vr3 that I pictured has the same series processor as the explorer (the vr3 processor pictured is actually faster).. and the slower processor easily handles RGBM which is extremely cpu intensive... (there is one section of code in VPM that takes alot of CPU time, that can be solved by an approximation which is whats used in RGBM) If others can do it cheaply so can delta p if they WANT.. in my mind 200 quid is a bit steep for a software update but its their company - makes the explorer an even bigger bargain cosidering the full blown unit only retails for $1300 us... The market will probably determine if they made a good decision or pissed off alot of people, I know I haven't recommended the vr3 for some time (I feel like crap if I follow their deco exactlyand was waiting for vpm myself, with the prices anticipated I'll probably ebay it (even though my ugly mug is in a bunch of the adds they use (pic from zero g)... ), If their computer truely follows the simulator posted, I definately don't like the way conservatism is handled (by examining the decompiled the java app). I would expect to pay 200-300 dollars with a hardware update (more for a total swap, but that should be a choice), considerably less for software.. Getting people to upgrade also HELPS the manufacturer, the more versions you have to maintain the costlier it is.. Your better off supporting as few software versions as possible.. That is primarily the driving force for manufacturers to offer people reasonable software upgrade paths.. even people that udated their hammerheads (as another example) with complete new electonics AND wrist cases (and in some instances rewiired permanantly to the head) only paid $400-$450 per unit or less.. __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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5th August 2005, 02:07	#25 (permalink)
Drmike Custom Title Allowed! Current Rebreather/s: MK 15.X Ouroboros Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 3,303	"The only computer you will ever need" Class action anyone??? __________________ Cave diving is a sport Wreck diving is a sport Diving in general is a sport 'Rebreather diving' is not a sport its the delusional obsession with a highly dangerous and often inappropriate piece of equipment
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5th August 2005, 02:10	#26 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,998	Quote: (Originally Posted by Drmike) "The only computer you will ever need" Class action anyone??? That was what they were selling... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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5th August 2005, 03:03	#27 (permalink)
DepthCharge New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: upstate NY Posts: 232	Quote: (Originally Posted by Padowan) Blimey, those prices are high! So if you have an old VR3, pre v2 software, you're expected to pay £660 for an upgrade SWOP? You can nearly get a new unit for that price? I'd rather sell mine on e-bay for £500 and then buy a new one! That seems to be the standard for customer service in England/Europe. No discount for current customers. I had to send in a wing to DiveRite for repair. They quoted me a price, I sent in the wing. It was an older sonoform wing, that they could no longer repair. For $20.00 more than the repair quote they sent me a new wing (about 1/3 cost of new one). Now that's customer service. Later, DC
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5th August 2005, 16:57	#28 (permalink)
Barrie Law RebreatherWorld Sponsor Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Ireland Posts: 726	Quote: (Originally Posted by Barrie Law) The info I have is VPM-B will be available from the !st of September and will cost as follows: Vr3 with version 3.0 software from new 193 stg Vr3 with version 2.0 software, needs new board 270 stg Vr3 with earlier software cannot be upgraded , althought a factory swop with your old unit for a new Vr3 VPM-B 660 stg Cheers The prices I listed are retail prices within Europe and include UK goverment VAT @ 17.5%. This is not applicable to those outside the EEC and so should be deducted from the price, you would have to check locally for any tax due!! Getting cheaper already.....for some!! Cheers __________________ Barrie Law Rebreather World Store Supplying the Rebreather World Tel:US +19548403892 Fax:US+19543333792 Tel:EU+442071930496 Fax:EU+442077606344 Mobile+353876880628 Skype:barrielaw Email: barrie@rebreatherworldstore.com
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5th August 2005, 20:29	#29 (permalink)
*jradomski* Moderator Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Sport Kiss Optima rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Evolution Megalodon Classic Kiss rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: "Da" Bronx Posts: 2,998	Quote: (Originally Posted by Barrie Law) The prices I listed are retail prices within Europe and include UK goverment VAT @ 17.5%. This is not applicable to those outside the EEC and so should be deducted from the price, you would have to check locally for any tax due!! Getting cheaper already.....for some!! Cheers deductibg the VAT, to us in the us (with todays exchange rates) thats just under $300 for a software only upgrade for the swap out.. again deducting the VAT its $999 USD.. What a bargain even deducting the "option" price a $700 premium is pretty obscene.... Might as well fleabay the unit.. It might come out cheaper... So much for keeping the CURRENT customer's happy... I agree with depthcharge... __________________ Joe Radomski CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10 All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.
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5th August 2005, 22:45	#30 (permalink)
Phil Ennis New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Windermere, Cumbria. Posts: 72	Has anybody sent this link to Kevin Gurr? It would be interesting to hear his thoughts on the matter. __________________ Phil Ennis. My Website
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