World Record - Gigi Casati Reaches -205 with Voyager Rebreather - Vrelo Cave Croatia

Drmike

What a very silly post.

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Mdemon

Ooh, and another one. Just like buses...

He has a point. I don't know how warm the water was at 276m, but I think that Dave Shaw's dive is a CCR depth record hard to beat by -70m and a few less degrees (assuming there is a temp difference - I don't know, just guessing).

Naturally. (Or possibly the best inner suits?)

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sadave

I think Johan may have a point, yeah, there are probably too many records, and claims of records happening.

But what happened (ignoring the sponsorship issues) to just "going diving", or exploring for the sake of exploring.

Anecdote number 1:

I was sitting in the talk at Oztek in Sydney earlier listening to a report about a recent cave expedition, and I overheard a comment from the person behind me who asked his mate "where they diving the cave, or just looking for depth records"...

I thought about this, and listened to the rest of the talk with that in mind. Every dive description they gave, went into a bit of detail, mentioning some things about the dive, but every dive description included the maximum depth obtained.

Anecdote number 2:

I'm fairly involved in another scuba diving forum that is 100% Australian based and oriented. Foreigners are more than welcome, but when a diver has made 10 posts on the forum, with not one of them being anything other than "bragging" about their latest expedition, and how good they are, with a link to their personal website, which tells you more about how good they are, and then never come back to answer questions until they come back to brag about their next dive....... You have to wonder what their motivations are for doing the dives, let alone making the posts.

I think we could all benefit from less of the "I did this, how cool am I", and more of the "just going diving"... none of the press releases, none of the spamming every forum on the planet stating that "I've just done....." All your doing is making it appear that you have joined that forum purely to blow your own trumpet.

Here, its a bit different, its a rebreather specific forum, that doesn't have any borders. Yes, we want to know about any "big" dives done on Rebreather's, but we want MORE than just "I just dived to 205m in cold water". I'm sorry, but the initial post should have, (IMHO) included, deco schedules, sorb used, mixes used, bailouts carried / staged, etc etc etc... not JUST "I did this, I'm so good, and here's a pretty picture to go with it!"

So, if your doing a big dive, good luck, and god speed, absolutely let us know all about it, but dispense with the bullshit... On this board, you ARE dealing with MOST of the best and most experienced Rebreather divers on the planet, as well as some complete RB numpties (like me!), we'll all respect you, as long as you don't come across as blowing your trumpet, and come here to help us learn, and maybe even learn a bit yourself. We've been burnt once before by someone who was claiming to have done a lot of things that have since been proven to be BS internet diving claims, so I think we're justified in asking for details and evidence now.

/end of rant, I think I need another beer!

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Drmike

Your both missing the point. They claimed 'deepest cold water cave dive on an Rebreather' they didnt claim 'deepest cold water cave dive on an Rebreather by the worlds best divers'

Not going to be drawn into a net argument but thought I should elaborate a little more

Quote: (Originally Posted by divingtoors)

Thus we can deduct that the Brits, the NJ divers and the South African Western Cape divers the best divers in the world, based on that analogy...

What analogy? There was no analogy, Show me the analogy. There was only the expression of opinion that such long exposures in cold water adds additional considerable risk to these deep dives - which it does. Nothing was said or inferred of divers skill level. Nobody (other than you) mentioned anything about 'best divers' Claiming a record is when you claim you did 'A'. In this case 'A' was 'deep cave dive in cold water'. They didn't claim 'deep cave dive in cold water by worlds best divers' - that came from your imagination.
Cold water was just given as a differentiator between their dive and others. They could have just as easily chosen a different differentiator such as the deepest cave dive with an spg stuck in ones ear (like your profile pic)

Quote:

Our and their water is mostly low visibility, between 8'C and 15'C (very cold), strong, surgy. Open ocean dives. 45 min deco is 8'C water, with a torn drysuit seal and u will not make it either.....

No but theres a small chance you could survive blowing much of that 45min deco (bent to hell but at least on the surface where you can get medical help and alive) . If you try to head for surface from a 205m after doing 45mins of ascent you are 100% for sure one dead f_cker. Most likely you wouldn't even make it anywhere near the surface

Quote:

The guys do training at one of our local tech facilities (an old abandonned asbestos mine) where the water temp seldom reaches more than 15' C and even less at depth and the max depth is +/- 135m, and then should rate in the "top" divers in the world.?? (They can't go deeper because it isn't deeper.)

Possibly. But what does that have to do with this record claim?. They arent claiming 'deep cave dive in cold water by worlds best divers' remember, only 'deep cave dive in cold water'

Quote:

Personal friends have dived in a "mine dam/lake" called Samada, with <1m viz, (brown muddy water) to a depth of 80m (bottomed out) & 10'C on the surface ..

I have a friend who can suck his own dick (lucky sod )...and your point is? I dont disagree that divers who dive in shit conditions arent going to likely have a higher skill level in some areas, (possibly mostly only in the area of in water comfort in those conditions) than those who only dive in blue crystal clear warm water and Im sure these guys would agree. But what has that got to do with these guys making the record claim of deepest cold water Rebreather cave dive? Theres no auto correlation between the 2. I dont see anywhere them saying they are the worlds best divers. I only see them claiming a record for doing the deepest cold water Rebreather cave dive.

Quote:

Where do we draw the line for claiming records, because due to those conditions that must be a world record of some kind (In fact.. it is regarded a local provincial record, just unofficial and quite unclaimable, because there are no such records or categories in which records can be claimed. It is however still the deepest ever dive in that province (quite a flat place... )

why must anyone draw the line? why not just have a coke and a smile and go diving? Wheres the harm? Why do you care? Who or what are you trying to protect?

Quote:

So how do we equate apples with apples....

why do you have to? Why compare a 205m cold water cave dive to a 50m warm water wreck dive?? Who cares - go diving!

Quote:

Any dive beyond 50m, or where a decompression ceiling is incurred, is a BIG dive, no matter where you are diving, and no matter what the "Alpha's" say..

I'm sorry but that's just not true. You need to think a little more about the outcome from the same problem on a 50m dive with less than few hours deco and a 205m dive with 5+hours of deco. Skip req. deco on a 50m dive and you will get badly bent possibly dead - skip it on a 205m dive and your 100% dead for sure. Its exponentially more dangerous the deeper you go.

Quote:

We all know the risks..Just as many divers have perished in open ocean deco diving than in caves, records or not..

comment serves to illustrate exactly the point your trying not to make. Far less people dive caves yet death rate is same ergo cave diving is more dangerous (which again is bleeding obvious) and so what? what's that got to do with the fact these guys did a 205m dive in cold water. They did it. that's what they did and that's what they have claimed as a record - why? - because it is a record (assuming the claim is true) - again so what? you think they should not make a claim that's true? you think its nothing to be proud of? ok fine you don't have to be impressed, you don't have to care - personally I am impressed and I do care because I know how Id feel facing the same dive in that temp water compared to warm water

Quote:

I just think the list of records are becoming a bit rudiculous....

was it the deepest cold water cave dive? if it was then it IS a record - so bloody what - who gives a toss. Who is it hurting.Record claims have been around since man could write - you think its a new thing? only happens in diving?

Quote:

It's is an encyclopedia that has to be read, 1000 diferent conditions...
There are so many these days that nobody even knows actually, who has done what.

who cares? who is it hurting?
Its not as if these guys were the 1st ones to make record claims in this or any other human venture

Quote:

Isn't that doing exactly what must not be done to a record, by taking the prestige out of it? One off these days we won't be able to claim a record, because it won't be worth the paperwork.

hahaha what prestige? What paperwork? its not some religious order you know! Whose honor are you upholding? why take any of this so seriously?

Quote:

All things being equal, and trip sponsorships by the way side, if U want to claim a record, go to the best conditions possible, do it as long as possible for a deep as possible.

Nothing is equal and you cant just wave aside sponsorship - unless you want to sponsor? As for going to the best conditions - will you pay? Do people have the luxury to always choose where they dive? Can you move the cave for them to Egypt ? Or are you one of those people that think people are only motivated by claiming a record and cant see beyond that to the fact that many people are motivated by something else and and subsequent record claims if any only serve to gain and/or satisfy sponsorship needs as has already been outlined.



Now you and Mdeomn may not believe that they did do the worlds deepest Rebreather cave dive in cold water
You may not agree that temp is a good differentiator - that's fine why not just say that, but waffling on about non existent 'best diver' claims and that 50m cold water dives are as safe as 205m cold water dives is unnecessary irrelevant and incorrect

FWIW I wish they hadnt mentioned anything about records it detracts from the tech side of things which is what we are interested in and gets some peoples backs up. Some do care about record claims and just cant see beyond them getting hooked up on believing that in all cases as soon as someone mentions depth reached or record claim then that automatically means thats all they are interested in. Thats often BS. Its just a way to describe a dive in simple quick terms, a sound bite if you like.

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Drmike

Could you afford to ignore sponsorship issues if you wanted to do that dive? I wish people would stop writing (ignoring sponsorship issues, or sponsorship aside) many people/teams just cant afford to ignore them and they can be the thing that makes or breaks an expedition - you shouldn't dismiss them so lightly. Most everyone doing this kind of thing are heavily sponsored. How far would you prostitute yourself to get USD3K worth of new DUI drysuit? USD2K worth of Slavo lights, USD2K worth of F1 dive computers? etc etc. I'm not saying these guys were sponsored but many are. Would you agree to a marketing record claim (even a marginal one) if it facilitated getting all that lovely gear?

Oztek is a tech conference not a Karst geology conference. The easiest differentiator to describe a progressive cave exploration is penetration distance or depth and that's the easiest thing to use. "On the 1st expedition we succeeded in exploring to this cute little dissolved stalactite next to a sand dollar" isn't really going to cut it is it
! . But typical as soon as you mention a depth someone auto believes that's your only motivation. That's not always true of all (at least its not for me depth makes me scared) Curiously in horizontal caves if you only mention distance nobody accuses you of only being motivated to break distance records!!! as if thats a bad thing

I suspect their motivation is 100% advertising in order to attract students and future sponsorship - I'm not sure there anything wrong with doing that and I'm not sure if that means they don't see that as a means to an end (to be able to do the dives in the 1st place) Their posts should be viewed in the same way as you view an advert from BMW. Its commercial advertsing - nothing wrong with that provided people recognise it as such and PROVIDED they dont let commercial marketting pressures make them claim untruths especially dangerous ones. Persoanlly I skip over such posts in the same way and same reason I use the remote to flick through TV adverts.

I fortunately can afford to avoid 95% of the sponsorship issues so I don't have to prostitute myself so much - but I appreciate those that nead to if they wish to be able to afford big expeditions. And believe me one way or another almost everyone doing this sort of thing is under some kind of sponsorship obligation. That's just the way it works mostly.

I agree - well said I agree again - but mines a G&T

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Decodiver

Cold has a huge role to play in this achievement.

For people who regularly dive cold water, they appreciate the planning and limitations that are imposed by the what-if scenario of suit flood or rapid, unwanted, decompression.

Example:

Lake Geneva (Leman) is 310 metres deep. To my knowledge no-one has dived to the bottom.

Phil Sudan and I have often spoken about the feasibility of a depth-record dive, to the bottom of the lake OC or CCR.

The cold is the factor that scares the s h i t out of us and makes us realise that the slightest failure of our drysuit WOULD be fatal.

If the lake was in Egypt and we had a facility on it's shore, then we may very well be tempted.

However, given the location and the cold, I would have to be out of my mind, IMHO, to attempt this dive.

Therefore, again IMHO, cold is a significant hurdle to overcome and I take my hat off to Gigi, for his and his team's achievement.

Cheers,

Dave Cooper.

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Rebreather World Terms & Conditions

sadave

I should have been more specific. In fact, I WAS, but edited it to remove names etc etc...

The presentation I'm talking about was made by a group of blokes that I consider mates. (after this post, wether they still consider me mates is another matter... )... I didn't take the presentation as them blowing their own trumpet, but after hearing the comment from behind me, I listened with an ear to their point of view, and I can UNDERSTAND how that presentation could have been seen that way. I never saw it that way, mainly because I had at-length discussions with a number of the members of the expedition both before and after the expedition.

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sadave

Again, fair call... I'd offer just about anything to get a breather. (Any manufacturers / distributors reading this? ) I'm currently diving OC, and have been since I had to give back my breather at the end of 2001. (except for the occasional trips where I've managed to beg/borrow/steal/hire someone else's unit)... But there has to be a limit. Yes, these guys are probably sponsored, and yes, they have to do everything to get their sponsors value for money, but at the expense of their own credibility? Sorry, I don't know too many people who would go that far...

Or do I?

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Drmike

Yeh Im not sure why everyone is so hung up on assuming as soon as someone mentions depth that means that was their sole motivation. Its funny how we never hear someone tell JJ "hey you got to 12,000m in Wakulla - heck did you just do the dive for the sake of a distance record? hahah

Im also not sure why everyone is so hung up on assuming as soon as someone mentions the dive just happened to break some form of record (no matter how small) that their sole motivation was to break a record!

In other words mentioning a record was broken and mentioning the depth reached does NOT auto mean that either was their motivation.


And quite frankly so what if it was????


When Jerome does the amasing stuff he does he reports depth then distance and time at depths - I think thats the best way and perhaps stops some from jumping to the conclusion that depth record chasing was the goal.

GIN GIN GIN GIN! Goto run and buy some limes!

Hope your buddies forgive you

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Drmike

hmm well you are quite a cutie - Im sure we can come to some arrangement sexy boy

sorry JKnox Im upgrading

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