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Old 18th January 2012, 09:10   #11 (permalink)
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

RIP the poor folk who've passed away.

Rather pleasently amazed that so few people are missing, could have been a diaster on a biblical scale given the numbers onboard!

Hats off to the divers and non-diving rescuers going deep inside an unsteady wreck which could slip into deep water, it might not appear brave until you consider what would happen should she tip over into deep water when your 100's of meters from an exit! As divers we are used to visiting old more stable wrecks, freshly wrecked vessels like this haven't finished sinking yet!

It would also appear more and more like the Captain is responsible for this, I can't see the Italian legal system being very sympathetic given his stupidity and alledged cowardly actions.
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Old 18th January 2012, 11:24   #12 (permalink)
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Quote: (Originally Posted by Packhorse) View Original Post
OC is simple and reliable.

My guess is that each area is searched then the divers return to the start point and report. CCR offers no benefit in this regard but some draw backs.
At this stage they are/ were still looking for survivors so will not be diving down in fully flooded areas.
I was reffering to the OC equipment they are using.. From the pictures it seems they are facilitating Single tanks with regular rec BCDs and penetrating without lines...
Indeed brave as Ben states and probably a bit beyond brave for my taste..
In Germany such tasks are done by DLRG and Firefighter Divers, which are very very reglemented in performing their tasks..
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Old 18th January 2012, 13:21   #13 (permalink)
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

A satellite shot of the wreck.

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Old 18th January 2012, 17:34   #14 (permalink)
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Quote: (Originally Posted by dreamdive) View Original Post
No! Human Stupidity!!!! Those have all the bells and whistles of alarm system on board. With a ship this size, you have more than one person on the bridge, too. They had to be stupid!!!
Aircraft Accident: DC. 10 ZK-NZP Flight 901

28 November, 1979, Mount Erebus, Antarctica


What happened:
  • At 8:20 am on 28 November, 1979, Flight 901 left Auckland Airport. On board were 237 passengers and 20 crew, looking forward to the 11-hour return sightseeing flight to Antarctica.
  • These sightseeing flights had been operating since February, 1977, and took the passengers on a low-flying sweep over McMurdo Sound, returning to New Zealand on the same day.
  • Captain Jim Collins and his co-pilot Greg Cassin had not flown the Antarctic flight before, but the flight was considered to be straightforward and they were both experienced pilots.
  • Nineteen days earlier the pilots had attended a briefing session where they were shown the printouts of a flight plan used by previous flights to the Antarctic.
  • The plan gave co-ordinates for the trip to Antarctica and across McMurdo Sound which, when entered into the computerised navigation system, would be flown automatically by the plane.
  • On the morning of 28 November Collins and Cassin entered the series of latitude and longitude co-ordinates into the aircraft computer.
  • Unknown to them two of the co-ordinates had been changed earlier that morning, and when entered into the computer, changed the flight path of the aircraft 45 kilometres to the east.
  • At 12:30 pm Flight 901 was about 70 kilometres from McMurdo Station. Permission was given by the McMurdo radio communications centre to descend to 3050 metres and proceed “visually”.
  • Air safety regulations were against dropping lower than a height of no less than 1830 metres even under good weather conditions, but Collins believed the plane was flying over low, flat ground. Other pilots regularly flew low over the area to give their passengers a better view.
  • At 12.45 pm Collins advised McMurdo Centre he was dropping further to 610 metres. At this point he locked onto the computerised navigational system, but Flight 901 was not where either McMurdo Centre or the crew thought it was.
  • The change in the two co-ordinates had put Flight 901 on a path not across the flat ground of McMurdo Sound, but across Lewis Sound and towards the 3794 metre-high active volcano, Mount Erebus.
  • Because the air was clear and beneath the cloud layer, the white of the ice blended with the white of the mountain, with no contrast to show the sloping up of the land - a whiteout.
In the CONCORDIA accident, because it was nightime, maybe the distances if only percived visualy could lead to mistakes . (IMHO) Was radar available and can it be used (procedures) ??
  • At 12:49 pm the deck altitude device began to blare a warning but there was no time for Collins to save the situation from disaster. Six seconds later Flight 901 hit the side of Mount Erebus and disintegrated.
Like in the Concordia accident there was probably a warning..to late to avoid colision. The crew action to steer the ship ashore probably saved more then 4000 souls that otherwise would drown had the ship remained at large.
  • From 12:50 pm McMurdo Centre kept trying to contact Flight 901, and finally informed Air New Zealand headquarters in Auckland that communication with the aircraft had been lost. US search and rescue aircraft were put on standby.
  • At 10:00 pm (New Zealand time), about thirty minutes after the DC-10 would have used the last of its fuel, the airline told reporters that it had to be assumed that the aircraft was lost. Searches were made over the usual flight path, but nothing was found.
  • Just before 1:00 am (New Zealand time) the crew of a United States Navy plane found some unidentified wreckage on the side of Mount Erebus. There were no signs of survivors.
  • 20 hours after the crash, helicopter search parties were able to land at the site and confirm that the wreckage was the remains of Flight 901. All 257 people on board had died.
There are no new accidents just the same type with diffent actors and scenarios.... Let´s wait the accident final report to blame then the stupidity of HUMAN ERROR..or better said HUMAN FACTORS innerent to the HUMAN CONDICTION

just my 2 cents
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Old 18th January 2012, 17:58   #15 (permalink)
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Does anyone have the paper chart over Giglio and could possibly scan the area of interest including the reef that Concordia hit?

I made a clip from Transas showing what I beleive to be the reef that Concordia hit. I also put an ERBL showing the distance from the coast line to the closest possible passage distance to avoid the reef. Mind you with leaving no margin for errors in positioning, errors in the chart itself, errors in navigationsystems used (GPS, radar, optical etc). As shown in my clip this would be some 441 metres, which then would be slightly more than 450 metres taking the ships beam in to account.

The captain has stated in the news report that he planned the passage distance to 300 metres since the reef only comes out about 100 metres from the coastline.

If my Transas chart is accurate this would mean that the captain planned for a passage some 150 metres inside of the safe passage distance instead of 200 metres outside. I need the paper chart to see if this is true.

In any case 200 meters is still to small a margin for this size of a ship. Even 1000 metres would be cutting it short IMHO.
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Old 18th January 2012, 18:16   #16 (permalink)
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

@psmedo

I can't see a real comparison between your flight accident and the COSTA disaster.

You could may compare your accident with flight 571 Fuerza-Aèra- Uruguaya (1972)

Flight operations within mountains do not allow to use modern navigation. The human is the only navigator in these scenario and mistakes and wrong decision will be punished with immediate response.

Also there is 30 year on technical progress and development between those incidents.
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Old 18th January 2012, 19:14   #17 (permalink)
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Quote: (Originally Posted by nilmol) View Original Post
Does anyone have the paper chart over Giglio and could possibly scan the area of interest including the reef that Concordia hit?
There was a talk on the Lloyd's List that the captain was using small scale UK Hydrographic Office (UKHO) charts which didn't show those rock formations, but UKHO declined to comment.
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Old 18th January 2012, 20:19   #18 (permalink)
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Quote: (Originally Posted by Pawel Szopinski) View Original Post
There was a talk on the Lloyd's List that the captain was using small scale UK Hydrographic Office (UKHO) charts which didn't show those rock formations, but UKHO declined to comment.
That's terrible,
If this will show to be true it may very well fall back on the owners as well depending on what directives was given to the captain regarding which charts to bring on board. I'm only saying this because owners sometimes have a habit of trying to save money by imposing such silly rules regarding minscule matters on their captains. Which of course is ridicules in the view of the overall cost running a ship this size.
Anyway as a general rule a ship has to bring all charts needed for the planned route in all suitable scales, in paper or in authorized electronic version. Without such charts the route should not have been planned as it was.
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Old 19th January 2012, 16:34   #19 (permalink)
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

Inspiration Reb on Concordia Wreck :
Dentro la Concordia: le immagini del soccorso speleologico - Video Repubblica - la Repubblica.it

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Old 20th January 2012, 02:26   #20 (permalink)
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Re: Italy cruise ship Costa Concordia aground near Giglio

From Corriere Della Sera.it today:

"...Yesterday, frogmen from the Genoa Carabinieri unit were diving from the promontory below the Tievoli household. They were looking for the precise point of impact and they found it, eight metres down where the underwater gap widens at the Scola piccola, the most seaward exposed rock. There were also two pieces of the ship’s hull, conclusive proof of a violent impact, consistent with a vessel out of control. The divers measured the distance from the closest part of the shoreline and the result was a verdict in itself. The distance is 92 to 96 metres, which means the 114,000-ton leviathan was in the area where swimming is permitted..."

The chart issue is irrelevant.
Cheers,
Mike
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