Need Help!!!! Shipping/Brokerage/Customs Issue

RebreatherNut · 4th December 2009, 00:26

Hey all,
Well, I am sort of in a sucky situation. Here it goes.
I ordered some undergarments out of the UK. The package got shipped and came in to the US in Los Angeles.
So, out of Los Angeles, the shipping forwarder/brokerage of this particular curier service contacted me and wanted to know if I have my own broker or if they should take care of the brokerage for me.
Come to find out, all the brokerage fees and charges is nearly half the value of the content. In other words, pretty steep!

Don´t get me wrong, I have no issue with paying the duty on the merchandise I have ordered, this is the least of all the amounts. And, everybody got to pay taxes to Uncle Sam.

Anyway, since the value of the package is about 300 bucks, which is pretty small, why in the world does this package has to go through a brokerage? This package should have entered the county as "INFORMAL ENTRY", pay the 9 Dollars US Customs processing fee, pay the tax, and this should be done with it.

The other crapy part, the package is in L.A. , I am in Seattle. It is not like I just can swing down to L.A. to try to sort this thing out localy.

Does anyone out there have any experiences with importing stuff, and especially dealing with brokerages???? This stuff is for personal use and not for a company. I just find it silly to have to pay such a steep brokerage fee if the amount of the package is so little.

I have made some calls to US Customs, started out in Seattle, and they were helpfull but can´t do anything for me because the package is in L.A. Well, nearly 10 phone calls later, and the closer I got to brokerage firm, the more tight lipped the people got.

The company in the UK who I purchased the stuff from is frustrated as well, because some shippments (up to a value of $2k cruise right through customs with not even any duty charged, and no brokerage issue, and my package got stuck.

Just to be clear, the shipping curier was chosen not by me, that was done by the company in the UK.
And I don´t need comments like you should have choosen Postal Service, DHL, Fedex or UPS, I am well aware that they have their own brokers etc.

If you have experience in this field, if you can look up specific customs (tarif codes), or if you even work in this field and you can give me pointers or help me in any way, please drop me a PM.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thank you,

RBN

zzzzzzzz · 4th December 2009, 02:43

Hello RBN,

soapbox mode on, please send the kids away!!!

At the risk of being very politically incorrect, brokerage fees are the closest to being f---ed, without so much as a kiss, as you can get.

First, the reason why everybody is tightlipped is because the can't legally charge you for brokerage fees. Depends on the country, but that is generally how it goes. The shipping companies hope you pay the excessive charges and take it up the @$$. Ask a lawyer if you can refuse the charges, call your local congressman or governor.

A long time ago, after having been charged through the wazoo for such fees and by pure coincidence the truth was revealed. Yes, it is just a question of filling out a form to indicate country of origin and product code. Note that the product code is produced by legislators to protect local industry, or if the politician has been bribed in a superior amount by a foreign power, then the foreign worker paid starvation wages is given most favored status so your politician can receive a kickback from the greedy multinational backed by some @$$#o!e on wall street and after screwing you and your constituents as many times as they can.

BTW, when either of the fine border folks, or the broker fills out the product code, they don't care to figure out that you're ordering nukes from Pakistan or bubble gum from China, they just put the first f---ing code they can find to save themselves a microsecond of work. A goat or a retard^H^H^H^H^H^H challenged person would do about as good a job. It is a sight to bear that this is all meant to protect us from everything except excessive charges.

God forbid your goods are deemed to be "High Value" items by the shipper, you'll be wishing for taxes instead. This often emboldens them to double the cost of the items you're importing. Never mind you've declined insurance on the goods. They will claim that the government requires them to carry insurance in the event your items are burned up, lost, or cause damage to the facilities in which they are impounded during the process of being imported. Whatever the f--- that means.

Now I just drive to the nearest shop across the border and broker them myself. I have declined to pay the fees and bills that showed up after the goods have been delivered and endured the nasty letters that follow. Remember that if you pay after a collection agency (a legal name for thieves) sends you mail, you effectively prove your guilt. Either way, the shipper will declare this as a loss and screw you as a taxpayer anyway.

Why do I prefer to drive: just to save the aggravation and to deny shippers the extra couple of bucks they get in profit for crossing it over, even when they are subsequently denied their borkerage fees. I also encourage everybody to deny these fraudsters the opportunity to abuse their customers. Eventually, if everybody puts pressure on these motherf---ers, they will relent. They are already well paid for their services and are in fact breaking the law.

soapbox mode off, sorry for the diatribe!!!

Feelling much better now.

Phone a buddy, an old mistress, Tiger Woods, somebody on this board to go pick it up!

All that has to be done is to:

1) Get the bill of goods/lading/whatever from the shipper (It's a good idea idea to have a copy of the receipt to prove the value of the goods, sometimes the bill of lading or commercial invoice doesn't have this vital piece of information.)
2) Go to the customs folks and find the magic code (there is a table, or the agent will pick something close, you may get a couple of questions unrelated to the product and may be bringing in kitchenware in the end) and country of origin, pay the taxes and duties (it won't be as high as you've gotten an estimate for, these f---ers are adding all kinds of creative charges) (Also watch out if the knuckleheads pick snowsuits, that is a local protected industry in some states, you'll get it up the cheeks for that one)
3) Get the border folks to stamp the bill of lading or whatever it's called
4)Go back to the shipper and show them the rubber stamp so they can release the goods to you.

You may be able to do this yourself by fax or e-mail...

Can I flag my own post for innapropriate content before anyone else does?

jkaterenchuk · 4th December 2009, 03:01

Welcome to the wonderful world of importing. There are many things that need to be taken care of when importing goods into the US that the government requires. All of them could be handled by an individual but franky depending upon the item being imported, the port of entry and where the individual lives the amount of time and effort for the individual to do the customer clearance and brokerage is not reasonable. From what you say this is just such a case. I would suggest that you do one of two things.

1) Pay the broker and get your goods and chaulk it up to a lesson learned about the hazards of importing.
2) Find another broker that is willing to do the customs clearance paperwork for a lower price. But be aware they may then encounter additional issues such as access to the shipping paperwork and goods that might delay clearance and cost additional money.

The cost the broker wants to charge does not seem unreasonable to me given what they have to go thru to complete the documentation, clear it and take the risk that something is incorrect. It might seem excessive for this one item but that is because there is not alot of difference in the amount of work they need to do for this item of a 40ft container filled with items valued at $10's of thousands of dollars.

I used to import 100+ containers/month of products into the USA from all parts of the world.

If you want to get a feel for how much time this can entail. Do a Google search or "Harmonized Tariff Codes USA". Now try to find the specific code that fits the goods you are trying to import and you will see that you need to have some level of expertise to understand how the coding system works and to avoid overpaying duty.

John

zzzzzzzz · 4th December 2009, 03:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk)

If you want to get a feel for how much time this can entail. Do a Google search or "Harmonized Tariff Codes USA". Now try to find the specific code that fits the goods you are trying to import and you will see that you need to have some level of expertise to understand how the coding system works and to avoid overpaying duty.

Hello RBN,

"Expertise"! No offence John, but unless you know the broker, a farm animal has an equivalent or better shot at getting the tariff code right. The reality is that the broker that sees this random box go passed that he's going to "work" on, the poor bastard isn't going to get a fair deal, not by a long shot. It is predatory charging plain and simple. Brokers who do this work should do a short stint in the local jail to demonstrate better ways of earning a living.

They are broad categories and it's pretty easy to find something close that will fall within a reasonable bucket that will meet with the approval of the customs agent. They may quiz you, but they are looking for demeanor more than the specifics of the goods being imported. If you know what you are ordering, you've got a pretty fair shot at selecting the tariff code from the many that will fit.

As an example just the other day, cnc plasma cutter table parts were ordered. Among the many available codes, all of which had favorable tariffs, the closest was "machining equipment for lasers". No questions asked, here is the code, country of origin, have a nice day. In another example, lithium batteries, below a certain capacity there is a tariff, above a certain capacity no tariff. In the lower classes, there were a bunch of different tariffs. The bill of lading and commercial invoice had enough information to satisfy the agent, have a nice day. If the customs agent is unsure, he may inspect the goods to look for this information or to make sure you are not pulling a fast one.

The reality is that it is easy! If you know how to read, you can easily figure it out. It's just that the process is somewhat alienating and you're dealing with the "authorities" that can sometimes be a bit intimidating. If you're not smuggling contraband, you just have to go through the motions. There is nothing to worry about, the customs folks are there to serve.

jkaterenchuk · 4th December 2009, 04:28

Quote: (Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz)

Hello RBN,

"Expertise"! No offence John, but unless you know the broker, a farm animal has an equivalent or better shot at getting the tariff code right. The reality is that the broker that sees this random box go passed that he's going to "work" on, the poor bastard isn't going to get a fair deal, not by a long shot. It is predatory charging plain and simple. Brokers who do this work should do a short stint in the local jail to demonstrate better ways of earning a living.

They are broad categories and it's pretty easy to find something close that will fall within a reasonable bucket that will meet with the approval of the customs agent. They may quiz you, but they are looking for demeanor more than the specifics of the goods being imported. If you know what you are ordering, you've got a pretty fair shot at selecting the tariff code from the many that will fit.

As an example just the other day, cnc plasma cutter table parts were ordered. Among the many available codes, all of which had favorable tariffs, the closest was "machining equipment for lasers". No questions asked, here is the code, country of origin, have a nice day. In another example, lithium batteries, below a certain capacity there is a tariff, above a certain capacity no tariff. In the lower classes, there were a bunch of different tariffs. The bill of lading and commercial invoice had enough information to satisfy the agent, have a nice day. If the customs agent is unsure, he may inspect the goods to look for this information or to make sure you are not pulling a fast one.

The reality is that it is easy! If you know how to read, you can easily figure it out. It's just that the process is somewhat alienating and you're dealing with the "authorities" that can sometimes be a bit intimidating. If you're not smuggling contraband, you just have to go through the motions. There is nothing to worry about, the customs folks are there to serve.

The broker is your agent if your the importer. You select them and you should take responsibility to ensure your goods are properly coded. It's no different then using an accountant to do you tax return. He does the work but your still the one responsible. If the IRS has a problem with your reporting of taxes your the one on the hook.

If you want to be ignorant of the process then like so many other things in the business world you will get screwed and still have a smile on your face because you were too stupid to see it coming. Even when you stick you head in the sand while being asked to bend over.

Also, you might think the customs person is not too concerned about the code you select but you would feel otherwise when the Customs Auditors show up at the door of your business and start doing an audit of your inbound goods for the last few years and you are presented with a large bill and penalties for improper classifications and lower duty payments as well as importing good that are controlled or banned from certain countries without proper paperwork or approval.

For a individual the paperwork process and procedure are daunting expecially if its the first time. The cost and pain threshold should be taken into consideration when making the decision to purchase from a foreign source.

I also suspect that the OP has no idea what freight terms were used for his shipment that determines when legal ownership of the good transfer from shipper to purchaser and the possible situations in which his shipment could have been lost and then whom is responsible for insurance to cover any possible loss. Most people think that they do not own the goods until they are delivered to their house free of any damage. Just like thinking customs clearance and brokerage is not a big deal they would be very surprized the first time something that is FOB factory does not show up and cannot be found and they are out of their money with no insurance or recourse.

John

zzzzzzzz · 4th December 2009, 10:18

Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk)

The broker is your agent if your the importer. You select them and you should take responsibility to ensure your goods are properly coded. It's no different then using an accountant to do you tax return. He does the work but your still the one responsible. If the IRS has a problem with your reporting of taxes your the one on the hook.

If you want to be ignorant of the process then like so many other things in the business world you will get screwed and still have a smile on your face because you were too stupid to see it coming. Even when you stick you head in the sand while being asked to bend over.

Also, you might think the customs person is not too concerned about the code you select but you would feel otherwise when the Customs Auditors show up at the door of your business and start doing an audit of your inbound goods for the last few years and you are presented with a large bill and penalties for improper classifications and lower duty payments as well as importing good that are controlled or banned from certain countries without proper paperwork or approval.

For a individual the paperwork process and procedure are daunting expecially if its the first time. The cost and pain threshold should be taken into consideration when making the decision to purchase from a foreign source.

I also suspect that the OP has no idea what freight terms were used for his shipment that determines when legal ownership of the good transfer from shipper to purchaser and the possible situations in which his shipment could have been lost and then whom is responsible for insurance to cover any possible loss. Most people think that they do not own the goods until they are delivered to their house free of any damage. Just like thinking customs clearance and brokerage is not a big deal they would be very surprized the first time something that is FOB factory does not show up and cannot be found and they are out of their money with no insurance or recourse.

John

Hello John,

We seem to be agreeing vehemently. Based on the care in the classification the brokers and customs agents use, one would be far better served in the case of an audit to take care of the detail themselves and in the first place.

Why? I really don't have an iota of confidence that the broker or customs agent are going to be available come audit time and quite certain there will be a suitable waiver on the shipper/broker paperwork absolving themselves of any liability should their classification prove erroneous.

Classification isn't rocket science. We also agree that cheating or contraband are an inherent problem and hold potentially severe consequences.

In the specific case of drysuit undergarments, I have seen them classified by so-called brokers and customs agents as winterwear and subject to substantial duties. Once properly classified, there were no duties to be paid, only taxes. The brokers and customs agents didn't show the required duty of care.

The stuckie is the buyer. We also seem to agree.

As far as insurance while in bond, once again no merit. The broker can't enter into a contract of insurance and then charge you for it. The entity should be carrying insurance as a matter of business. As far as the goods not showing up, people usually prefer that option to paying for insurance and suffer denial on the part of the insurer. Astoundingly, shippers usually want to stay in business as well as suppliers and are usually interested in doing a good job. What has been your mileage here?

Thank you for keeping it congenial.

jkaterenchuk · 4th December 2009, 12:09

Quote: (Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz)

Astoundingly, shippers usually want to stay in business as well as suppliers and are usually interested in doing a good job. What has been your mileage here?

Thank you for keeping it congenial.

Your welcome and likewise. Our discussion is really for the benefit of others in the future so that they can be aware of the pitfalls of buying foreign produced good and importing them into the country. It relatively easy once you know the ropes but can be a PIA if you do not.

Regarding insurance in most cases the preferrence is for FOB ex Factory terms. Which clearly mean the title of goods transfer to the buyer upon departure from the shippers location. Also this facilitate using buyer selected transportation company and customs broker.

I have found transportation companies are reluctant to pay damage claims but more accomodating on paying loss claims. Damage claims must be properly document and filed according to the transportation companies long and detailed process to not risk denial. Buyer also have to be careful to understand what the insurance. The amount of business you do with the transportation company directly impacts their processing of claims. If your a one time customer you will need to stick 100% to their filing process and correctly document.

John

zzzzzzzz · 4th December 2009, 15:12

Here is a thought for the bogus charges manufactured by brokers:

Mail or Wire fraud! A federal crime no less!

Remember those great lines from "The Firm" with Tom Cruise?

"It's not sexy, but it's got teeth."

"Twenty years and a million dollars, each instance."

RBN: Just get the broker to send you a detailed invoice for the charges. If they charged you for insurance but can't produce documentation proving them to be an insurer or having taken out a policy directed at your goods, they might well be guilty of Mail fraud. Remember that you may be able enlist the Postal Service and possibly the FBI to deal with such rackets.

If anybody does manages to get these shysters busted on such counts, please share.

n2diving · 4th December 2009, 22:07

We see this stuff all the time. Contact the broker and tell them you refuse to pay the fees, refuse to accept the package, and to return the package to the shipper... you will file a non-delivery claim with the shipper. Wait a few days and see what happens... often the package will magically appear with no brokerage fees. If the package doesn't appear in a few days, contact your credit card company and dispute the charge for non-delivery.

This is basiclly a 'scam'. The shipping agent in the UK uses expeditor in the US.... the broker has already been paid by the shipper. But many people will just pay the fees without question, so the broker will take whatever they can get. However, the broker does not want to lose the contract with the shipper which might happen if stuff started bouncing back to the shipper because customers refuse to pay the fees, so if you tell them to return the package to the shipper they'll almost always do an about face. I've 'refused' a great many packages inbound to us with 'broker fees' on them, never once has the package actually returned to the sender.

RebreatherNut · 15th December 2009, 03:07

Hey guys and gals,
Thank you for all your input on this thread.
Well, I am happy to report a happy ending!
After complaining to the shipping courier, I found out that this package should have never ended up with this particular parcel forwarder/broker. Why it ended up there, I probably will never find out. My package should have ended up with a diffrent package forwarder here in the US.

Anyway, after some back and forth with the shipping courier, they (the shipping courier) agreed to foot the bill for all those waky brokerage fees.
The courier asked me to pay for it in order to get the package out from the broker and they have re-inversed me for my expenses. The only part I had to pay, and was happy to pay, was the import duty, which was the smallest amount of all those crazy fees and charges.

And then the icing on the cake was that the broker who forwarded my package managed to write the wrong zip code on the package, so the package ended up first at a wrong address in Seattle, which in the end caused a delay of 24h.

Well, in the end everything worked out, and all the stuff arrived in tip top shape.

I also appreciate all the help I received from the shipper who was just as frustrated as I was. If the courier would not have agreed to pay for the broker charges, I would have followed n2diving´s instruction with refusing delivery and have the package returned. But luckely, it did not get to that.

Well, in case you find yourself stuck in such a situation, don´t pay those fees. To me, brokers are crooks!

4th December 2009, 00:26	#1 (permalink)
RebreatherNut Casual Sport Kiss Pilot Sport Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 1,007	Need Help!!!! Shipping/Brokerage/Customs Issue Hey all, Well, I am sort of in a sucky situation. Here it goes. I ordered some undergarments out of the UK. The package got shipped and came in to the US in Los Angeles. So, out of Los Angeles, the shipping forwarder/brokerage of this particular curier service contacted me and wanted to know if I have my own broker or if they should take care of the brokerage for me. Come to find out, all the brokerage fees and charges is nearly half the value of the content. In other words, pretty steep! Don´t get me wrong, I have no issue with paying the duty on the merchandise I have ordered, this is the least of all the amounts. And, everybody got to pay taxes to Uncle Sam. Anyway, since the value of the package is about 300 bucks, which is pretty small, why in the world does this package has to go through a brokerage? This package should have entered the county as "INFORMAL ENTRY", pay the 9 Dollars US Customs processing fee, pay the tax, and this should be done with it. The other crapy part, the package is in L.A. , I am in Seattle. It is not like I just can swing down to L.A. to try to sort this thing out localy. Does anyone out there have any experiences with importing stuff, and especially dealing with brokerages???? This stuff is for personal use and not for a company. I just find it silly to have to pay such a steep brokerage fee if the amount of the package is so little. I have made some calls to US Customs, started out in Seattle, and they were helpfull but can´t do anything for me because the package is in L.A. Well, nearly 10 phone calls later, and the closer I got to brokerage firm, the more tight lipped the people got. The company in the UK who I purchased the stuff from is frustrated as well, because some shippments (up to a value of $2k cruise right through customs with not even any duty charged, and no brokerage issue, and my package got stuck. Just to be clear, the shipping curier was chosen not by me, that was done by the company in the UK. And I don´t need comments like you should have choosen Postal Service, DHL, Fedex or UPS, I am well aware that they have their own brokers etc. If you have experience in this field, if you can look up specific customs (tarif codes), or if you even work in this field and you can give me pointers or help me in any way, please drop me a PM. Any help is much appreciated. Thank you, RBN
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4th December 2009, 02:43	#2 (permalink)
zzzzzzzz Go diving Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 242	Re: Need Help!!!! Shipping/Brokerage/Customs Issue Hello RBN, soapbox mode on, please send the kids away!!! At the risk of being very politically incorrect, brokerage fees are the closest to being f---ed, without so much as a kiss, as you can get. First, the reason why everybody is tightlipped is because the can't legally charge you for brokerage fees. Depends on the country, but that is generally how it goes. The shipping companies hope you pay the excessive charges and take it up the @$$. Ask a lawyer if you can refuse the charges, call your local congressman or governor. A long time ago, after having been charged through the wazoo for such fees and by pure coincidence the truth was revealed. Yes, it is just a question of filling out a form to indicate country of origin and product code. Note that the product code is produced by legislators to protect local industry, or if the politician has been bribed in a superior amount by a foreign power, then the foreign worker paid starvation wages is given most favored status so your politician can receive a kickback from the greedy multinational backed by some @$$#o!e on wall street and after screwing you and your constituents as many times as they can. BTW, when either of the fine border folks, or the broker fills out the product code, they don't care to figure out that you're ordering nukes from Pakistan or bubble gum from China, they just put the first f---ing code they can find to save themselves a microsecond of work. A goat or a retard^H^H^H^H^H^H challenged person would do about as good a job. It is a sight to bear that this is all meant to protect us from everything except excessive charges. God forbid your goods are deemed to be "High Value" items by the shipper, you'll be wishing for taxes instead. This often emboldens them to double the cost of the items you're importing. Never mind you've declined insurance on the goods. They will claim that the government requires them to carry insurance in the event your items are burned up, lost, or cause damage to the facilities in which they are impounded during the process of being imported. Whatever the f--- that means. Now I just drive to the nearest shop across the border and broker them myself. I have declined to pay the fees and bills that showed up after the goods have been delivered and endured the nasty letters that follow. Remember that if you pay after a collection agency (a legal name for thieves) sends you mail, you effectively prove your guilt. Either way, the shipper will declare this as a loss and screw you as a taxpayer anyway. Why do I prefer to drive: just to save the aggravation and to deny shippers the extra couple of bucks they get in profit for crossing it over, even when they are subsequently denied their borkerage fees. I also encourage everybody to deny these fraudsters the opportunity to abuse their customers. Eventually, if everybody puts pressure on these motherf---ers, they will relent. They are already well paid for their services and are in fact breaking the law. soapbox mode off, sorry for the diatribe!!! Feelling much better now. Phone a buddy, an old mistress, Tiger Woods, somebody on this board to go pick it up! All that has to be done is to: 1) Get the bill of goods/lading/whatever from the shipper (It's a good idea idea to have a copy of the receipt to prove the value of the goods, sometimes the bill of lading or commercial invoice doesn't have this vital piece of information.) 2) Go to the customs folks and find the magic code (there is a table, or the agent will pick something close, you may get a couple of questions unrelated to the product and may be bringing in kitchenware in the end) and country of origin, pay the taxes and duties (it won't be as high as you've gotten an estimate for, these f---ers are adding all kinds of creative charges) (Also watch out if the knuckleheads pick snowsuits, that is a local protected industry in some states, you'll get it up the cheeks for that one) 3) Get the border folks to stamp the bill of lading or whatever it's called 4)Go back to the shipper and show them the rubber stamp so they can release the goods to you. You may be able to do this yourself by fax or e-mail... Can I flag my own post for innapropriate content before anyone else does? Last edited by zzzzzzzz; 4th December 2009 at 03:10..
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4th December 2009, 03:01	#3 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk RebreatherWorld Sponsor HammerMeg Kiss Classic, Inspiration Join Date: May 2006 Location: PA Posts: 2,523	Re: Need Help!!!! Shipping/Brokerage/Customs Issue Welcome to the wonderful world of importing. There are many things that need to be taken care of when importing goods into the US that the government requires. All of them could be handled by an individual but franky depending upon the item being imported, the port of entry and where the individual lives the amount of time and effort for the individual to do the customer clearance and brokerage is not reasonable. From what you say this is just such a case. I would suggest that you do one of two things. 1) Pay the broker and get your goods and chaulk it up to a lesson learned about the hazards of importing. 2) Find another broker that is willing to do the customs clearance paperwork for a lower price. But be aware they may then encounter additional issues such as access to the shipping paperwork and goods that might delay clearance and cost additional money. The cost the broker wants to charge does not seem unreasonable to me given what they have to go thru to complete the documentation, clear it and take the risk that something is incorrect. It might seem excessive for this one item but that is because there is not alot of difference in the amount of work they need to do for this item of a 40ft container filled with items valued at $10's of thousands of dollars. I used to import 100+ containers/month of products into the USA from all parts of the world. If you want to get a feel for how much time this can entail. Do a Google search or "Harmonized Tariff Codes USA". Now try to find the specific code that fits the goods you are trying to import and you will see that you need to have some level of expertise to understand how the coding system works and to avoid overpaying duty. John Last edited by jkaterenchuk; 4th December 2009 at 03:05..
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4th December 2009, 03:28	#4 (permalink)
zzzzzzzz Go diving Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 242	Re: Need Help!!!! Shipping/Brokerage/Customs Issue Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk) If you want to get a feel for how much time this can entail. Do a Google search or "Harmonized Tariff Codes USA". Now try to find the specific code that fits the goods you are trying to import and you will see that you need to have some level of expertise to understand how the coding system works and to avoid overpaying duty. Hello RBN, "Expertise"! No offence John, but unless you know the broker, a farm animal has an equivalent or better shot at getting the tariff code right. The reality is that the broker that sees this random box go passed that he's going to "work" on, the poor bastard isn't going to get a fair deal, not by a long shot. It is predatory charging plain and simple. Brokers who do this work should do a short stint in the local jail to demonstrate better ways of earning a living. They are broad categories and it's pretty easy to find something close that will fall within a reasonable bucket that will meet with the approval of the customs agent. They may quiz you, but they are looking for demeanor more than the specifics of the goods being imported. If you know what you are ordering, you've got a pretty fair shot at selecting the tariff code from the many that will fit. As an example just the other day, cnc plasma cutter table parts were ordered. Among the many available codes, all of which had favorable tariffs, the closest was "machining equipment for lasers". No questions asked, here is the code, country of origin, have a nice day. In another example, lithium batteries, below a certain capacity there is a tariff, above a certain capacity no tariff. In the lower classes, there were a bunch of different tariffs. The bill of lading and commercial invoice had enough information to satisfy the agent, have a nice day. If the customs agent is unsure, he may inspect the goods to look for this information or to make sure you are not pulling a fast one. The reality is that it is easy! If you know how to read, you can easily figure it out. It's just that the process is somewhat alienating and you're dealing with the "authorities" that can sometimes be a bit intimidating. If you're not smuggling contraband, you just have to go through the motions. There is nothing to worry about, the customs folks are there to serve.
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4th December 2009, 04:28	#5 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk RebreatherWorld Sponsor HammerMeg Kiss Classic, Inspiration Join Date: May 2006 Location: PA Posts: 2,523	Re: Need Help!!!! Shipping/Brokerage/Customs Issue Quote: (Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz) Hello RBN, "Expertise"! No offence John, but unless you know the broker, a farm animal has an equivalent or better shot at getting the tariff code right. The reality is that the broker that sees this random box go passed that he's going to "work" on, the poor bastard isn't going to get a fair deal, not by a long shot. It is predatory charging plain and simple. Brokers who do this work should do a short stint in the local jail to demonstrate better ways of earning a living. They are broad categories and it's pretty easy to find something close that will fall within a reasonable bucket that will meet with the approval of the customs agent. They may quiz you, but they are looking for demeanor more than the specifics of the goods being imported. If you know what you are ordering, you've got a pretty fair shot at selecting the tariff code from the many that will fit. As an example just the other day, cnc plasma cutter table parts were ordered. Among the many available codes, all of which had favorable tariffs, the closest was "machining equipment for lasers". No questions asked, here is the code, country of origin, have a nice day. In another example, lithium batteries, below a certain capacity there is a tariff, above a certain capacity no tariff. In the lower classes, there were a bunch of different tariffs. The bill of lading and commercial invoice had enough information to satisfy the agent, have a nice day. If the customs agent is unsure, he may inspect the goods to look for this information or to make sure you are not pulling a fast one. The reality is that it is easy! If you know how to read, you can easily figure it out. It's just that the process is somewhat alienating and you're dealing with the "authorities" that can sometimes be a bit intimidating. If you're not smuggling contraband, you just have to go through the motions. There is nothing to worry about, the customs folks are there to serve. The broker is your agent if your the importer. You select them and you should take responsibility to ensure your goods are properly coded. It's no different then using an accountant to do you tax return. He does the work but your still the one responsible. If the IRS has a problem with your reporting of taxes your the one on the hook. If you want to be ignorant of the process then like so many other things in the business world you will get screwed and still have a smile on your face because you were too stupid to see it coming. Even when you stick you head in the sand while being asked to bend over. Also, you might think the customs person is not too concerned about the code you select but you would feel otherwise when the Customs Auditors show up at the door of your business and start doing an audit of your inbound goods for the last few years and you are presented with a large bill and penalties for improper classifications and lower duty payments as well as importing good that are controlled or banned from certain countries without proper paperwork or approval. For a individual the paperwork process and procedure are daunting expecially if its the first time. The cost and pain threshold should be taken into consideration when making the decision to purchase from a foreign source. I also suspect that the OP has no idea what freight terms were used for his shipment that determines when legal ownership of the good transfer from shipper to purchaser and the possible situations in which his shipment could have been lost and then whom is responsible for insurance to cover any possible loss. Most people think that they do not own the goods until they are delivered to their house free of any damage. Just like thinking customs clearance and brokerage is not a big deal they would be very surprized the first time something that is FOB factory does not show up and cannot be found and they are out of their money with no insurance or recourse. John Last edited by jkaterenchuk; 4th December 2009 at 04:30..
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4th December 2009, 10:18	#6 (permalink)
zzzzzzzz Go diving Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 242	Re: Need Help!!!! Shipping/Brokerage/Customs Issue Quote: (Originally Posted by jkaterenchuk) The broker is your agent if your the importer. You select them and you should take responsibility to ensure your goods are properly coded. It's no different then using an accountant to do you tax return. He does the work but your still the one responsible. If the IRS has a problem with your reporting of taxes your the one on the hook. If you want to be ignorant of the process then like so many other things in the business world you will get screwed and still have a smile on your face because you were too stupid to see it coming. Even when you stick you head in the sand while being asked to bend over. Also, you might think the customs person is not too concerned about the code you select but you would feel otherwise when the Customs Auditors show up at the door of your business and start doing an audit of your inbound goods for the last few years and you are presented with a large bill and penalties for improper classifications and lower duty payments as well as importing good that are controlled or banned from certain countries without proper paperwork or approval. For a individual the paperwork process and procedure are daunting expecially if its the first time. The cost and pain threshold should be taken into consideration when making the decision to purchase from a foreign source. I also suspect that the OP has no idea what freight terms were used for his shipment that determines when legal ownership of the good transfer from shipper to purchaser and the possible situations in which his shipment could have been lost and then whom is responsible for insurance to cover any possible loss. Most people think that they do not own the goods until they are delivered to their house free of any damage. Just like thinking customs clearance and brokerage is not a big deal they would be very surprized the first time something that is FOB factory does not show up and cannot be found and they are out of their money with no insurance or recourse. John Hello John, We seem to be agreeing vehemently. Based on the care in the classification the brokers and customs agents use, one would be far better served in the case of an audit to take care of the detail themselves and in the first place. Why? I really don't have an iota of confidence that the broker or customs agent are going to be available come audit time and quite certain there will be a suitable waiver on the shipper/broker paperwork absolving themselves of any liability should their classification prove erroneous. Classification isn't rocket science. We also agree that cheating or contraband are an inherent problem and hold potentially severe consequences. In the specific case of drysuit undergarments, I have seen them classified by so-called brokers and customs agents as winterwear and subject to substantial duties. Once properly classified, there were no duties to be paid, only taxes. The brokers and customs agents didn't show the required duty of care. The stuckie is the buyer. We also seem to agree. As far as insurance while in bond, once again no merit. The broker can't enter into a contract of insurance and then charge you for it. The entity should be carrying insurance as a matter of business. As far as the goods not showing up, people usually prefer that option to paying for insurance and suffer denial on the part of the insurer. Astoundingly, shippers usually want to stay in business as well as suppliers and are usually interested in doing a good job. What has been your mileage here? Thank you for keeping it congenial. Last edited by zzzzzzzz; 4th December 2009 at 10:21..
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4th December 2009, 12:09	#7 (permalink)
jkaterenchuk RebreatherWorld Sponsor HammerMeg Kiss Classic, Inspiration Join Date: May 2006 Location: PA Posts: 2,523	Re: Need Help!!!! Shipping/Brokerage/Customs Issue Quote: (Originally Posted by zzzzzzzz) Astoundingly, shippers usually want to stay in business as well as suppliers and are usually interested in doing a good job. What has been your mileage here? Thank you for keeping it congenial. Your welcome and likewise. Our discussion is really for the benefit of others in the future so that they can be aware of the pitfalls of buying foreign produced good and importing them into the country. It relatively easy once you know the ropes but can be a PIA if you do not. Regarding insurance in most cases the preferrence is for FOB ex Factory terms. Which clearly mean the title of goods transfer to the buyer upon departure from the shippers location. Also this facilitate using buyer selected transportation company and customs broker. I have found transportation companies are reluctant to pay damage claims but more accomodating on paying loss claims. Damage claims must be properly document and filed according to the transportation companies long and detailed process to not risk denial. Buyer also have to be careful to understand what the insurance. The amount of business you do with the transportation company directly impacts their processing of claims. If your a one time customer you will need to stick 100% to their filing process and correctly document. John
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4th December 2009, 15:12	#8 (permalink)
zzzzzzzz Go diving Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Earth Posts: 242	Re: Need Help!!!! Shipping/Brokerage/Customs Issue Here is a thought for the bogus charges manufactured by brokers: Mail or Wire fraud! A federal crime no less! Remember those great lines from "The Firm" with Tom Cruise? "It's not sexy, but it's got teeth." "Twenty years and a million dollars, each instance." RBN: Just get the broker to send you a detailed invoice for the charges. If they charged you for insurance but can't produce documentation proving them to be an insurer or having taken out a policy directed at your goods, they might well be guilty of Mail fraud. Remember that you may be able enlist the Postal Service and possibly the FBI to deal with such rackets. If anybody does manages to get these shysters busted on such counts, please share. Last edited by zzzzzzzz; 4th December 2009 at 15:15..
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4th December 2009, 22:07	#9 (permalink)
n2diving RBW Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 320	Re: Need Help!!!! Shipping/Brokerage/Customs Issue We see this stuff all the time. Contact the broker and tell them you refuse to pay the fees, refuse to accept the package, and to return the package to the shipper... you will file a non-delivery claim with the shipper. Wait a few days and see what happens... often the package will magically appear with no brokerage fees. If the package doesn't appear in a few days, contact your credit card company and dispute the charge for non-delivery. This is basiclly a 'scam'. The shipping agent in the UK uses expeditor in the US.... the broker has already been paid by the shipper. But many people will just pay the fees without question, so the broker will take whatever they can get. However, the broker does not want to lose the contract with the shipper which might happen if stuff started bouncing back to the shipper because customers refuse to pay the fees, so if you tell them to return the package to the shipper they'll almost always do an about face. I've 'refused' a great many packages inbound to us with 'broker fees' on them, never once has the package actually returned to the sender. Last edited by n2diving; 4th December 2009 at 22:13..
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15th December 2009, 03:07	#10 (permalink)
RebreatherNut Casual Sport Kiss Pilot Sport Kiss Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 1,007	Re: Need Help!!!! Shipping/Brokerage/Customs Issue Hey guys and gals, Thank you for all your input on this thread. Well, I am happy to report a happy ending! After complaining to the shipping courier, I found out that this package should have never ended up with this particular parcel forwarder/broker. Why it ended up there, I probably will never find out. My package should have ended up with a diffrent package forwarder here in the US. Anyway, after some back and forth with the shipping courier, they (the shipping courier) agreed to foot the bill for all those waky brokerage fees. The courier asked me to pay for it in order to get the package out from the broker and they have re-inversed me for my expenses. The only part I had to pay, and was happy to pay, was the import duty, which was the smallest amount of all those crazy fees and charges. And then the icing on the cake was that the broker who forwarded my package managed to write the wrong zip code on the package, so the package ended up first at a wrong address in Seattle, which in the end caused a delay of 24h. Well, in the end everything worked out, and all the stuff arrived in tip top shape. I also appreciate all the help I received from the shipper who was just as frustrated as I was. If the courier would not have agreed to pay for the broker charges, I would have followed n2diving´s instruction with refusing delivery and have the package returned. But luckely, it did not get to that. Well, in case you find yourself stuck in such a situation, don´t pay those fees. To me, brokers are crooks!
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