Buying & Selling to Each Other?

w ripley · 21st February 2008, 16:45

Anyone figured out how we can "safely" buy and sell to each other?

If you want to buy something from a Rebreather member (that you don't know) and you live in another country, for example, is there any way to inspect the merchandise where you live before you part with your money?

Or if you want to sell something to a Rebreather member (that you don't know) and he or she lives in another country, for example, is there any way to cover shipping (both ways if necessary), provide an opportunity for the buyer to inspect the equipment and still be sure you are going to get paid?

A COD service (DHL, etc) appears to only help the seller, but not the buyer. Paypal, for example, also appears to only help the seller, but not the buyer. This should be a 2-way street. Any ideas?

I spent some time looking thru Rebreather World posts before posting but didn't see anything. Sorry if this has been discussed. If it has, can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Bill

cramerdn · 21st February 2008, 17:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by w ripley)

If you want to buy something from a Rebreather member (that you don't know) and you live in another country, for example, is there any way to inspect the merchandise where you live before you part with your money?

In other words have the seller part with their merchandise before they inspect your money?

You best bet is just use caveat emptor. You can get a pretty good idea of who you are dealing with if you look at how many, and the content of their other posts.

I have bought and sold to strangers on here and The Deco Stop and shipped as far away as Moscow, Kiev and Alstraila; so far so good.

The other alternative is use ebay. They offer seller and buyer protections.

netmage · 21st February 2008, 17:11

Quote: (Originally Posted by w ripley)

Anyone figured out how we can "safely" buy and sell to each other?

If you want to buy something from a Rebreather member (that you don't know) and you live in another country, for example, is there any way to inspect the merchandise where you live before you part with your money?

Or if you want to sell something to a Rebreather member (that you don't know) and he or she lives in another country, for example, is there any way to cover shipping (both ways if necessary), provide an opportunity for the buyer to inspect the equipment and still be sure you are going to get paid?

A COD service (DHL, etc) appears to only help the seller, but not the buyer. Paypal, for example, also appears to only help the seller, but not the buyer. This should be a 2-way street. Any ideas?

I spent some time looking thru Rebreather World posts before posting but didn't see anything. Sorry if this has been discussed. If it has, can someone point me in the right direction?

Thanks,

Bill

ebay does have escrow type partners that serve as trusted middlemen-there are costs associated...

I've done alot of purchases (domestic only tho) for items <$400 on TDS w/o any negative transactions. Part of it goes to knowing who your dealing with by active online 'reputation', I mean after hanging around these forums for a bit you can get a feeling for who's a newbie/possible scam artist, and someone who actively contributes to the forums knowledgebase.

If your talking to someone new, perhaps there is someone trusted nearby?

The deal never went thru for a trade, I recently had some conversations w/ another Rebreather World forum member, we didn't know each other, we're both fairly new, and he didn't want to be w/o his stuff for very long, fortunately I was in no hurry, and I knew someone who lived in the same city who would have brokered on my behalf in person.

Lots and lots of close up pictures should go a long way...

-Tim

***Beanie*** · 21st February 2008, 18:38

most people on here know someone else on here

I would expect anything brought off the forums to be as described, gentleman's agreement style.

I'd like to think we can all trust each other, I've had dealing with quite a few people on here both as seller and buyer with no trouble.

**sfldiver** · 21st February 2008, 18:40

Unfortunately, this is one of the dangers associated in this new electronic world we live in. Coincidentally, two days ago, I just purchased a dive related item on Ebay, because I was unable to find it locally or domestically. I sent $600+ to Hong Kong via PayPal in advance and am awaiting the merchandise. I took all the recommended precautions, such as only doing business with someone that has an excellent reputation and using the PayPal system, but I absolutely am aware of the fact that I am assuming the risk of losing my payment, because if something goes wrong, I am not flying to Hong Kong to resolve it and I have no faith in PayPal's assurance programs. I'm pretty confident that things will go smoothly, but I accept the risk - So, don't make a transaction, if you are not willing to accept the risk!

Therefore, as was previously mentioned, caveat emptor!

* HINT FOR STUART: As a result of the increased popularity of rebreathers and the increasing future potential for the bartering of rebreathers in the 2nd hand market, RW may want to consider establishing an Ebay style solution to this situation and devolop a platform within RW which will increase the ease and safety of completing this type of transaction via this site.

***EBT*** · 21st February 2008, 18:55

if it were me personally, I'd say its very much a case of caveat emptor.

There are commercial escrow services, or there's the option of getting a local board mate to check out the gear. One thing you shouldnt do is assume some faceless text on a forum makes someone instantly bullet proof and fully trustworthy.

Andy Del · 21st February 2008, 19:21

Fear not! You can dispute through Paypal quite nicely and either get up to $200 or $2000 back, if the seller has a premium (I think) account...

but it should give some people a laugh, and we ALL need a laugh, don't we?

I have just gone through exactly this type of problem, but NOT with dive gear or anyone on this forum

. I bought a trumpet off eBay (it's not as if 32 is enough, you know, but it's for a student...)

In short, I got goods not as described that needed a few $$$ spent to put them in working order. The seller wasn't interested in communicating, wasn't interested for a second time, and I lodged a dispute with paypal. At this point he got uppity and righteous about his honour, integrity, etc. etc.

Bluster bluster, yadda yadda, and I upped the stakes to make a claim against him for my costs in repair. At this point Paypal becomes the decider. I got an email about 30 minutes later telling me the seller had agreed to make a 'part refund' as per my claim.

The tosspot decided to refund the entire amount, less US$70 shipping he had paid and demand I return the goods to the US (from Australia)

What the *?

It seems he misunderstood and decided he could call the shots, writing a note to an electronic system which siad he would pay the amount he put in the appropriate box if he gotthe hornback, not realising he had sent that amount already...

The Paypal system worked just fine in getting my refund, a little too well, thanks to this dude's intractable and overinflated sense of entitlement.

Now, I'm just awaiting for the weekend to call him at home and let him know I am sending him back the balance of the refund: minus my claimed amount.

If you live in Windermere, Florida, go waaay off shore for a dive, as there's gonna be one humdinger of a temper tantrum come Saturday morning!

Geeze, I hope it's no one on the forum who is also a musician.

**sfldiver** · 21st February 2008, 19:33

Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy Del)

Fear not! You can dispute through Paypal quite nicely and either get up to $200 or $2000 back, if the seller has a premium (I think) account...

Yep, the seller I purchased my item through has a a preferred PayPal Account; hopefully my item will arrive as described and I will not have to go that route - Thanks for the great info!

**Dsix36** · 22nd February 2008, 00:31

I have used escrow.com for several big dollar purchases (and sales). It offers protection to both the seller and the buyer.

Payment is not given to seller until merchandise is inspected and deemed OK. Then payment is released to the seller.

If someone is willing to use escrow.com, more than likely it will have an acurate description.

There is a fee for the service, but it is well worth it for the piece of mind.

I am currently selling backplates for Optima's to Rebreather World members and am amazed at the fact that members will send me (stranger) money without some kind of protection. Don't worry, I am honest and the plates will ship.

windymiller · 22nd February 2008, 00:47

In my humble opinion, I would rather deal with people on this forum than use ebay...They dont care as long as they have their money! I have always found them useless in dealing with matters, especially getting money back!!

I have had countless dealings(read, too many

) with other members on this forum and have not found one rotten egg yet!

I brought a meg quite happily from the states without seeing it and he was quite happy to accept part payment until it turned up here.

21st February 2008, 16:45	#1 (permalink)
w ripley Sorta New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other CCR Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Norfolk VA USA Posts: 140	Buying & Selling to Each Other? Anyone figured out how we can "safely" buy and sell to each other? If you want to buy something from a Rebreather member (that you don't know) and you live in another country, for example, is there any way to inspect the merchandise where you live before you part with your money? Or if you want to sell something to a Rebreather member (that you don't know) and he or she lives in another country, for example, is there any way to cover shipping (both ways if necessary), provide an opportunity for the buyer to inspect the equipment and still be sure you are going to get paid? A COD service (DHL, etc) appears to only help the seller, but not the buyer. Paypal, for example, also appears to only help the seller, but not the buyer. This should be a 2-way street. Any ideas? I spent some time looking thru Rebreather World posts before posting but didn't see anything. Sorry if this has been discussed. If it has, can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks, Bill
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21st February 2008, 17:08	#2 (permalink)
cramerdn Obey my dog! Current Rebreather/s: Evolution Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Townsville QLD Posts: 523	Re: Buying & Selling to Each Other? Quote: (Originally Posted by w ripley) If you want to buy something from a Rebreather member (that you don't know) and you live in another country, for example, is there any way to inspect the merchandise where you live before you part with your money? In other words have the seller part with their merchandise before they inspect your money? You best bet is just use caveat emptor. You can get a pretty good idea of who you are dealing with if you look at how many, and the content of their other posts. I have bought and sold to strangers on here and The Deco Stop and shipped as far away as Moscow, Kiev and Alstraila; so far so good. The other alternative is use ebay. They offer seller and buyer protections. __________________ "Its better to live one day as a tiger than an entire life as a worm." "But who's ever heard of a worm skin rug?"
(Online)

21st February 2008, 17:11	#3 (permalink)
netmage Hello Kitty...... Current Rebreather/s: Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coconut Creek, FL Posts: 429	Re: Buying & Selling to Each Other? Quote: (Originally Posted by w ripley) Anyone figured out how we can "safely" buy and sell to each other? If you want to buy something from a Rebreather member (that you don't know) and you live in another country, for example, is there any way to inspect the merchandise where you live before you part with your money? Or if you want to sell something to a Rebreather member (that you don't know) and he or she lives in another country, for example, is there any way to cover shipping (both ways if necessary), provide an opportunity for the buyer to inspect the equipment and still be sure you are going to get paid? A COD service (DHL, etc) appears to only help the seller, but not the buyer. Paypal, for example, also appears to only help the seller, but not the buyer. This should be a 2-way street. Any ideas? I spent some time looking thru Rebreather World posts before posting but didn't see anything. Sorry if this has been discussed. If it has, can someone point me in the right direction? Thanks, Bill ebay does have escrow type partners that serve as trusted middlemen-there are costs associated... I've done alot of purchases (domestic only tho) for items <$400 on TDS w/o any negative transactions. Part of it goes to knowing who your dealing with by active online 'reputation', I mean after hanging around these forums for a bit you can get a feeling for who's a newbie/possible scam artist, and someone who actively contributes to the forums knowledgebase. If your talking to someone new, perhaps there is someone trusted nearby? The deal never went thru for a trade, I recently had some conversations w/ another Rebreather World forum member, we didn't know each other, we're both fairly new, and he didn't want to be w/o his stuff for very long, fortunately I was in no hurry, and I knew someone who lived in the same city who would have brokered on my behalf in person. Lots and lots of close up pictures should go a long way... -Tim
(Offline)

21st February 2008, 18:38	#4 (permalink)
*Beanie* Politeness officer Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: In da house! yeah baby! Posts: 3,202	Re: Buying & Selling to Each Other? most people on here know someone else on here I would expect anything brought off the forums to be as described, gentleman's agreement style. I'd like to think we can all trust each other, I've had dealing with quite a few people on here both as seller and buyer with no trouble. __________________ Beanie Gallery Admin & Library Assistant. www.outlawdivers.org.uk www.beandiving.co.uk www.beanengineering.co.uk www.divelife.co.uk
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21st February 2008, 18:40	#5 (permalink)
sfldiver Optima Army Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 734	Re: Buying & Selling to Each Other? Unfortunately, this is one of the dangers associated in this new electronic world we live in. Coincidentally, two days ago, I just purchased a dive related item on Ebay, because I was unable to find it locally or domestically. I sent $600+ to Hong Kong via PayPal in advance and am awaiting the merchandise. I took all the recommended precautions, such as only doing business with someone that has an excellent reputation and using the PayPal system, but I absolutely am aware of the fact that I am assuming the risk of losing my payment, because if something goes wrong, I am not flying to Hong Kong to resolve it and I have no faith in PayPal's assurance programs. I'm pretty confident that things will go smoothly, but I accept the risk - So, don't make a transaction, if you are not willing to accept the risk! Therefore, as was previously mentioned, *caveat emptor!* * HINT FOR STUART: As a result of the increased popularity of rebreathers and the increasing future potential for the bartering of rebreathers in the 2nd hand market, RW may want to consider establishing an Ebay style solution to this situation and devolop a platform within RW which will increase the ease and safety of completing this type of transaction via this site. __________________ *Currently piloting & shooting...* Dive Rite O2ptima FX Rigged w/ a Dsix Custom Aluminum Frame, Nomad Wing, Transpac Harness and VR3 Computer w/ VPM-B/E & a 4th Cell Sensor Link.* Canon PowerShot G9 Digital Camera *Rigged in a Patima-PDCH 2008 G9 Aluminum Housing w/ an Inon UWL-100 Achromat Wide Conversion Lens, 2 Inon UCL-165M67 Close-Up Lenses and 2 Inon Z-240 Strobes.
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21st February 2008, 18:55	#6 (permalink)
*EBT* Apprentice Luddite Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: UK, Brighton Posts: 1,903	Re: Buying & Selling to Each Other? if it were me personally, I'd say its very much a case of caveat emptor. There are commercial escrow services, or there's the option of getting a local board mate to check out the gear. One thing you shouldnt do is assume some faceless text on a forum makes someone instantly bullet proof and fully trustworthy. __________________ Eagles May Soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines! Rebreather World Terms of service Real diving t-shirts for real divers
(Offline)

21st February 2008, 19:21	#7 (permalink)
Andy Del Classic KISSer Current Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Australia, Sunny Sydney Posts: 403	Re: Buying & Selling to Each Other? Fear not! You can dispute through Paypal quite nicely and either get up to $200 or $2000 back, if the seller has a premium (I think) account... but it should give some people a laugh, and we ALL need a laugh, don't we? I have just gone through exactly this type of problem, but NOT with dive gear or anyone on this forum . I bought a trumpet off eBay (it's not as if 32 is enough, you know, but it's for a student...) In short, I got goods not as described that needed a few $$$ spent to put them in working order. The seller wasn't interested in communicating, wasn't interested for a second time, and I lodged a dispute with paypal. At this point he got uppity and righteous about his honour, integrity, etc. etc. Bluster bluster, yadda yadda, and I upped the stakes to make a claim against him for my costs in repair. At this point Paypal becomes the decider. I got an email about 30 minutes later telling me the seller had agreed to make a 'part refund' as per my claim. The tosspot decided to refund the entire amount, less US$70 shipping he had paid and demand I return the goods to the US (from Australia) What the *? It seems he misunderstood and decided he could call the shots, writing a note to an electronic system which siad he would pay the amount he put in the appropriate box if he gotthe hornback, not realising he had sent that amount already... The Paypal system worked just fine in getting my refund, a little too well, thanks to this dude's intractable and overinflated sense of entitlement. Now, I'm just awaiting for the weekend to call him at home and let him know I am sending him back the balance of the refund: minus my claimed amount. If you live in Windermere, Florida, go waaay off shore for a dive, as there's gonna be one humdinger of a temper tantrum come Saturday morning! Geeze, I hope it's no one on the forum who is also a musician. __________________ Yellow - the colour of greatness!
(Offline)

21st February 2008, 19:33	#8 (permalink)
sfldiver Optima Army Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pompano Beach, FL Posts: 734	Re: Buying & Selling to Each Other? Quote: (Originally Posted by Andy Del) Fear not! You can dispute through Paypal quite nicely and either get up to $200 or $2000 back, if the seller has a premium (I think) account... Yep, the seller I purchased my item through has a a preferred PayPal Account; hopefully my item will arrive as described and I will not have to go that route - Thanks for the great info! __________________ *Currently piloting & shooting...* Dive Rite O2ptima FX Rigged w/ a Dsix Custom Aluminum Frame, Nomad Wing, Transpac Harness and VR3 Computer w/ VPM-B/E & a 4th Cell Sensor Link.* Canon PowerShot G9 Digital Camera *Rigged in a Patima-PDCH 2008 G9 Aluminum Housing w/ an Inon UWL-100 Achromat Wide Conversion Lens, 2 Inon UCL-165M67 Close-Up Lenses and 2 Inon Z-240 Strobes.
(Offline)

22nd February 2008, 00:31	#9 (permalink)
Dsix36 Going Down? Current Rebreather/s: Optima Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Deerfield Beach, Florida Posts: 961	Re: Buying & Selling to Each Other? I have used escrow.com for several big dollar purchases (and sales). It offers protection to both the seller and the buyer. Payment is not given to seller until merchandise is inspected and deemed OK. Then payment is released to the seller. If someone is willing to use escrow.com, more than likely it will have an acurate description. There is a fee for the service, but it is well worth it for the piece of mind. I am currently selling backplates for Optima's to Rebreather World members and am amazed at the fact that members will send me (stranger) money without some kind of protection. Don't worry, I am honest and the plates will ship. __________________ THE MORE THAT I LEARN, THE MORE THAT I STILL NEED TO LEARN!!!!!!
(Offline)

22nd February 2008, 00:47	#10 (permalink)
windymiller All The Gear, No Idea Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Evolution Megalodon Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: england Posts: 240	Re: Buying & Selling to Each Other? In my humble opinion, I would rather deal with people on this forum than use ebay...They dont care as long as they have their money! I have always found them useless in dealing with matters, especially getting money back!! I have had countless dealings(read, too many) with other members on this forum and have not found one rotten egg yet! I brought a meg quite happily from the states without seeing it and he was quite happy to accept part payment until it turned up here.
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