Submatix CCR 100 SMS

paulraymaekers · 29th November 2006, 10:32

Quote: (Originally Posted by Marc T)

I read again the 14143 and more particulary 6-2 6-7 and 6-15
about steady states I have no time to do and more not enough facility

do to the right computations but I guess that with the right diluent and the right O2 flow the ppo2 could stay between the good value.

Dont forget the SCR do that

Anyway if the thing is really impossible and if the the m CCR submatix is really CE aproved there is a way to follow, sort of a dispensation for mCCR Rebreather based on what have been done ( jurisprudence in french ) perhaps one of our lawyers here on Rebreather World could answer?

Cheers

Marc

hello marc, in SCR it is no problem at all, but in CCR..

the test is the following: you put the breathing machine at a certain breathing rate, pressure, temp, and a given CO2 inflow, you wait for steady state, and you see what the PPO2 is..

the CO2 inflow must be put on certain flows, the minimum is 0.4 l/min, the max 3.0 l/min, (means oxy consumption of 0.44l/min, till 3.33l/min)

anything you do, with a constant flow of 0.8l/min oxygen, your PPO2 will rise... (at the minimum settings)

regards
paul

venturi · 29th November 2006, 13:59

I don't know why there is a strange fault in the letter, the right word for "underwater" in italian is subacquee. the second "e" was added by hand in the third line Damned dazed italians !

I could may be wrong, but a UK laboratory may not be friendly to a rival ccr of the national one (damned English

) . And that an italian one don't bother ?

Ben Field · 29th November 2006, 16:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by venturi)

I could may be wrong, but a UK laboratory may not be friendly to a rival ccr of the national one (damned English

) . And that an italian one don't bother ?

Not only is that hugely racist...but also crazy.... I'm sure if they paid their money they'd get a fair test, a lab based in UK is still a European testing centre and answerable to all.

I guess its almost a fair retort to comments earlier about Italian dodgy backhanded dealing though?
;-)

I think the real debate here is not about CE, its relavence or even the dotted i's and crossed T's of the wording but how one manufacturer has seemingly passed a test that other people have been plainly told to not even try because the operational design of the unit would fail?

It all comes down to disclosure and how much of it a manufacturer is willing to make.

I guess we'll never know how things compare unless the long gone quiet Independant comparison breathing test machine project ever see the light of day??

paulraymaekers · 29th November 2006, 17:03

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

I think the real debate here is not about CE, its relavence or even the dotted i's and crossed T's of the wording but how one manufacturer has seemingly passed a test that other people have been plainly told to not even try because the operational design of the unit would fail?

correct!

in addition to the former, as far as I was informed, there is a list on the website of the EC, with al the company's, testing organisations etc that have an approval to verify and approve the test results related to the EN14143, to obtain this specific CE-mark.

go and have a look who is on the list and who is not...

regards

paul

granso · 29th November 2006, 18:59

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino Corp.)

I think that the Aquatek Voyager is CE approved in the SCR version.

Voyager M is CE approved. M states for modular, ie SCR and CCR.
Voyager Tek, CCR is CE approved as well

cheers

paulraymaekers · 29th November 2006, 19:34

Quote: (Originally Posted by granso)

Voyager M is CE approved. M states for modular, ie SCR and CCR.
Voyager Tek, CCR is CE approved as well

cheers

hello granso, same problem: ask the belgian importer/reseller why he stopped importing/selling the voyager. It's not because there is a CE stamp on a unit that it got the official approval.

regards
paul

venturi · 30th November 2006, 11:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field)

Not only is that hugely racist...

Please, keep your vocabulary under control and remember the smilies employed. and if not sufficient, what my Rebreather World name sounds like

I pointed out the strange fact that an "official" testing laboratory seems to have a coarse mistake in the heading of their letters, wich doesn't lead to a spontaneous confidence in it. By the way, i could not find them in the italian yellow pages, i must be awkward. See Paul Raymaekers post on who is on the list, and who is not.

granso · 30th November 2006, 15:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

hello granso, same problem: ask the belgian importer/reseller why he stopped importing/selling the voyager. It's not because there is a CE stamp on a unit that it got the official approval.

regards
paul

I will double check and let you know
cheers

Ben Field · 30th November 2006, 15:16

Quote: (Originally Posted by venturi)

Please, keep your vocabulary under control and remember the smilies employed. and if not sufficient, what my Rebreather World name sounds like

I pointed out the strange fact that an "official" testing laboratory seems to have a coarse mistake in the heading of their letters, wich doesn't lead to a spontaneous confidence in it. By the way, i could not find them in the italian yellow pages, i must be awkward. See Paul Raymaekers post on who is on the list, and who is not.

Please note- "I guess its almost a fair retort to comments earlier about Italian dodgy backhanded dealing though?

"

**jmurba** · 18th February 2007, 19:54

Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7)

WHO GIVES A F*CK?!

The stupid CE certification obviously has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the unit certified. AP, Dräger, OMG have had it from the beginning, yet there have been plenty of accidents on them, including fatalities.

hi no they have had the ec certification before the standars were issued (((-:

29th November 2006, 10:32	#51 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,384	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: (Originally Posted by Marc T) I read again the 14143 and more particulary 6-2 6-7 and 6-15 about steady states I have no time to do and more not enough facility do to the right computations but I guess that with the right diluent and the right O2 flow the ppo2 could stay between the good value. Dont forget the SCR do that Anyway if the thing is really impossible and if the the m CCR submatix is really CE aproved there is a way to follow, sort of a dispensation for mCCR Rebreather based on what have been done ( jurisprudence in french ) perhaps one of our lawyers here on Rebreather World could answer? Cheers Marc hello marc, in SCR it is no problem at all, but in CCR.. the test is the following: you put the breathing machine at a certain breathing rate, pressure, temp, and a given CO2 inflow, you wait for steady state, and you see what the PPO2 is.. the CO2 inflow must be put on certain flows, the minimum is 0.4 l/min, the max 3.0 l/min, (means oxy consumption of 0.44l/min, till 3.33l/min) anything you do, with a constant flow of 0.8l/min oxygen, your PPO2 will rise... (at the minimum settings) regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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29th November 2006, 13:59	#52 (permalink)
venturi New Member Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: france Posts: 27	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS I don't know why there is a strange fault in the letter, the right word for "underwater" in italian is subacquee. the second "e" was added by hand in the third line Damned dazed italians ! I could may be wrong, but a UK laboratory may not be friendly to a rival ccr of the national one (damned English ) . And that an italian one don't bother ? Last edited by venturi : 29th November 2006 at 14:09.
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29th November 2006, 16:54	#53 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,487	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: (Originally Posted by venturi) I could may be wrong, but a UK laboratory may not be friendly to a rival ccr of the national one (damned English ) . And that an italian one don't bother ? Not only is that hugely racist...but also crazy.... I'm sure if they paid their money they'd get a fair test, a lab based in UK is still a European testing centre and answerable to all. I guess its almost a fair retort to comments earlier about Italian dodgy backhanded dealing though? ;-) I think the real debate here is not about CE, its relavence or even the dotted i's and crossed T's of the wording but how one manufacturer has seemingly passed a test that other people have been plainly told to not even try because the operational design of the unit would fail? It all comes down to disclosure and how much of it a manufacturer is willing to make. I guess we'll never know how things compare unless the long gone quiet Independant comparison breathing test machine project ever see the light of day?? __________________ www.hugsac.org.uk Beware Fridge Suck Last edited by Ben Field : 29th November 2006 at 16:55. Reason: missed smilie
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29th November 2006, 17:03	#54 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,384	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) I think the real debate here is not about CE, its relavence or even the dotted i's and crossed T's of the wording but how one manufacturer has seemingly passed a test that other people have been plainly told to not even try because the operational design of the unit would fail? correct! in addition to the former, as far as I was informed, there is a list on the website of the EC, with al the company's, testing organisations etc that have an approval to verify and approve the test results related to the EN14143, to obtain this specific CE-mark. go and have a look who is on the list and who is not... regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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29th November 2006, 18:59	#55 (permalink)
granso New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: May 2006 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Posts: 20	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino Corp.) I think that the Aquatek Voyager is CE approved in the SCR version. Voyager M is CE approved. M states for modular, ie SCR and CCR. Voyager Tek, CCR is CE approved as well cheers
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29th November 2006, 19:34	#56 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,384	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: (Originally Posted by granso) Voyager M is CE approved. M states for modular, ie SCR and CCR. Voyager Tek, CCR is CE approved as well cheers hello granso, same problem: ask the belgian importer/reseller why he stopped importing/selling the voyager. It's not because there is a CE stamp on a unit that it got the official approval. regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
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30th November 2006, 11:00	#57 (permalink)
venturi New Member Current Rebreather/s: Dolphin Other Rebreather/s: Dolphin Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: france Posts: 27	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: (Originally Posted by Ben Field) Not only is that hugely racist... Please, keep your vocabulary under control and remember the smilies employed. and if not sufficient, what my Rebreather World name sounds like I pointed out the strange fact that an "official" testing laboratory seems to have a coarse mistake in the heading of their letters, wich doesn't lead to a spontaneous confidence in it. By the way, i could not find them in the italian yellow pages, i must be awkward. See Paul Raymaekers post on who is on the list, and who is not.
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30th November 2006, 15:00	#58 (permalink)
granso New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other SCR Join Date: May 2006 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Posts: 20	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) hello granso, same problem: ask the belgian importer/reseller why he stopped importing/selling the voyager. It's not because there is a CE stamp on a unit that it got the official approval. regards paul I will double check and let you know cheers
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30th November 2006, 15:16	#59 (permalink)
Ben Field CK+Shearwater Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Sport Kiss Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: London, England Posts: 1,487	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: (Originally Posted by venturi) Please, keep your vocabulary under control and remember the smilies employed. and if not sufficient, what my Rebreather World name sounds like I pointed out the strange fact that an "official" testing laboratory seems to have a coarse mistake in the heading of their letters, wich doesn't lead to a spontaneous confidence in it. By the way, i could not find them in the italian yellow pages, i must be awkward. See Paul Raymaekers post on who is on the list, and who is not. Please note- "I guess its almost a fair retort to comments earlier about Italian dodgy backhanded dealing though? " __________________ www.hugsac.org.uk Beware Fridge Suck
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18th February 2007, 19:54	#60 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 672	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: (Originally Posted by caveseeker7) WHO GIVES A F*CK?! The stupid CE certification obviously has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the unit certified. AP, Dräger, OMG have had it from the beginning, yet there have been plenty of accidents on them, including fatalities. hi no they have had the ec certification before the standars were issued (((-: __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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