Submatix CCR 100 SMS

TR300 · 28th August 2006, 11:12

hmm,

the KISS-system automaticly (constant flow) add 0.8 l/min oxygen (+/- like the metabolism). you can add (if a failure occurs) manual some more oxygen.

on descend diluent is added manual or automaticly.

OK, by the eCCR (EN certfied) this is more controlled by an computer.

I think if the manufacteur describes this the certification should be no problem.

It should be interressting to get some information from an certification engeneer.

Holger

Stephane · 28th August 2006, 11:20

Quote:

the KISS-system automaticly (constant flow) add 0.8 l/min oxygen (+/- like the metabolism). you can add (if a failure occurs) manual some more oxygen.

Yes, but it does not maintain a constant PpO2. The flow is set to be just under the metabolic rate of the human body thus if you start with a PpO2 of 0,15 it will slowly decrease.
So this does not fall under the EN14143 rules.

I am really curious to know how Submatix did get their rebreather approved.

TR300 · 28th August 2006, 12:36

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino Corp.)

I am really curious to know how Submatix did get their rebreather approved.

hmm, then mail him and ask.

perhaps, they have any special and interressting modification.

paulraymaekers · 28th August 2006, 12:46

Quote: (Originally Posted by TR300)

hmm,

the KISS-system automaticly (constant flow) add 0.8 l/min oxygen (+/- like the metabolism). you can add (if a failure occurs) manual some more oxygen.

on descend diluent is added manual or automaticly.

OK, by the eCCR (EN certfied) this is more controlled by an computer.

I think if the manufacteur describes this the certification should be no problem.

It should be interressting to get some information from an certification engeneer.

Holger

hello holger, if you go trough the 14143, for the testing of this spec, you have to set the breathing machine on different parameters of O2 consumption, and this goes from 0.4 l/min till 3 l/min

so at a flow setting of 0.8l/min, the gas will become hyperoxic very fast when at 0.4l/min consumption, and hypoxic at consumptions > 0.8l/min

regards
paul

Hippoconsulting · 28th August 2006, 14:47

hi all

I'm the Submatix french dealer , i have the SMS CE paper, if you want, i can send it by mail. if you are interresting, send me a email.
actually, i'm working on French TDI CCR Course. CCR with Air Diluent, CCR with Normoxic Diluent, and the last CCR with Hypoxic diluent.
I think that all where Ok, for the end of November 2006.

regards
JEFF

Faceless · 23rd October 2006, 21:00

I'm interested in getting CE papers.
email sent in PM.

Stephane · 23rd October 2006, 21:11

Hello,

The papers doesn't say much than it is CE certified. No informations on how it passed the tests (no datas available).

paulraymaekers · 23rd October 2006, 21:57

Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino Corp.)

Hello,

The papers doesn't say much than it is CE certified. No informations on how it passed the tests (no datas available).

let's not fool ourself!

I asked 2 major companies in the UK about CE-ing the rEvo: both gave the same answer: NOT POSSIBLE!!

a CMF unit can never pas the tests like they were described in the EN14143!

perhaps the 14143 is translated differently in italian :-)

regards
paul

I tried to ask the italian company that issued the CE paper for the submatix: not possible to contact them, phone is never available, the person seems to be unknown

divetheworld · 24th October 2006, 17:08

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

let's not fool ourself!

I asked 2 major companies in the UK about CE-ing the rEvo: both gave the same answer: NOT POSSIBLE!!

a CMF unit can never pas the tests like they were described in the EN14143!

perhaps the 14143 is translated differently in italian :-)

regards
paul

I tried to ask the italian company that issued the CE paper for the submatix: not possible to contact them, phone is never available, the person seems to be unknown

Been there, seen that!
Paul, your absolutely right a CMF unit can never comply with EN14143 with current interpretations. Remember that Standards are not law, although you may not comply with a standard, you may be able to declare compliance with the law.
There are also interpretation problems with a number of clauses of this standard, it makes it difficult to comply with.

Quoted below-

5.7.1 Inspired partial pressure of oxygen

The apparatus shall under all conditions of use specified by the manufacturer automatically maintain an inspired partial pressure of oxygen greater than 0,20 bar. The inspired partial pressure of oxygen shall remain within the limits specified by the manufacturer. The inspired partial pressure of oxygen shall also be maintained at a partial pressure of less than or equal to 1,6 bar; except during the descent phase(s) of a dive for a period not greater than 1 min where it may increase to a maximum of 2,0 bar.
In the event of a failure of the automatic system provision may be made for the addition of respirable gas by the diver. If fitted this shall also be able to satisfy the inspired partial pressure of oxygen requirements of this clause.
Testing shall be done in accordance with 6.2, 6.7 and 6.15.

5.7.2 Oxygen partial pressure setpoint maintenance

In apparatus with a fixed oxygen partial pressure setpoint the inspired partial pressure of oxygen shall be maintained within 0,10 bar during constant depth phases of the dive. This at a ventilation of 40 l min-1 and associated oxygen consumption of 1,78 l min-1 Standard Temperature and Pressure, Dry (STPD).

During the ascent phase the inspired partial pressure of oxygen may reduce to a minimum of 0,5 bar below the set point but shall regain steady state set point within 1 min of halting an ascent.

When gas is injected into the breathing circuit the volume of oxygen added in 1 min shall be at least 6 l (STPD).

Testing shall be done in accordance with 6.7.

(ex 6.7)

The apparatus shall be tested immersed at the surface and up to maximum depth for each gas mixture with the maximum and minimum oxygen onsumption rates specified in Table 4. The tests at each work rate shall be continued until a steady state inspired oxygen is achieved. The inspired oxygen levels shall remain within acceptable limits.

seppu · 25th November 2006, 17:32

hello
welcome on board

28th August 2006, 11:12	#11 (permalink)
TR300 Home of the TR300 Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Dolphin Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Weinheim, Germany Posts: 194	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS hmm, the KISS-system automaticly (constant flow) add 0.8 l/min oxygen (+/- like the metabolism). you can add (if a failure occurs) manual some more oxygen. on descend diluent is added manual or automaticly. OK, by the eCCR (EN certfied) this is more controlled by an computer. I think if the manufacteur describes this the certification should be no problem. It should be interressting to get some information from an certification engeneer. Holger __________________ If it makes bubbles it means its brocken Visit: www.tr300.com, Missions: www.rebreatherteam.de
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28th August 2006, 11:20	#12 (permalink)
Stephane Hey! Ho! Let's go! Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nantes - France Posts: 742	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: the KISS-system automaticly (constant flow) add 0.8 l/min oxygen (+/- like the metabolism). you can add (if a failure occurs) manual some more oxygen. Yes, but it does not maintain a constant PpO2. The flow is set to be just under the metabolic rate of the human body thus if you start with a PpO2 of 0,15 it will slowly decrease. So this does not fall under the EN14143 rules. I am really curious to know how Submatix did get their rebreather approved. __________________ Stéphane Hammer-rEvo powered!
(Offline)

28th August 2006, 12:36	#13 (permalink)
TR300 Home of the TR300 Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Other SCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other CCR Dolphin Other SCR Home Build Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Weinheim, Germany Posts: 194	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino Corp.) I am really curious to know how Submatix did get their rebreather approved. hmm, then mail him and ask. perhaps, they have any special and interressting modification. __________________ If it makes bubbles it means its brocken Visit: www.tr300.com, Missions: www.rebreatherteam.de
(Offline)

28th August 2006, 12:46	#14 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,437	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: (Originally Posted by TR300) hmm, the KISS-system automaticly (constant flow) add 0.8 l/min oxygen (+/- like the metabolism). you can add (if a failure occurs) manual some more oxygen. on descend diluent is added manual or automaticly. OK, by the eCCR (EN certfied) this is more controlled by an computer. I think if the manufacteur describes this the certification should be no problem. It should be interressting to get some information from an certification engeneer. Holger hello holger, if you go trough the 14143, for the testing of this spec, you have to set the breathing machine on different parameters of O2 consumption, and this goes from 0.4 l/min till 3 l/min so at a flow setting of 0.8l/min, the gas will become hyperoxic very fast when at 0.4l/min consumption, and hypoxic at consumptions > 0.8l/min regards paul __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Offline)

28th August 2006, 14:47	#15 (permalink)
Hippoconsulting New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Other SCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Dolphin Other SCR Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: France (Var) 83 Posts: 12	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS hi all I'm the Submatix french dealer , i have the SMS CE paper, if you want, i can send it by mail. if you are interresting, send me a email. actually, i'm working on French TDI CCR Course. CCR with Air Diluent, CCR with Normoxic Diluent, and the last CCR with Hypoxic diluent. I think that all where Ok, for the end of November 2006. regards JEFF __________________ If it's possible, only with a rebreather, and no bubble. Jeff
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23rd October 2006, 21:00	#16 (permalink)
Faceless alone lurking in wrecks Current Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: May 2006 Location: France, Montpellier Posts: 92	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS I'm interested in getting CE papers. email sent in PM.
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23rd October 2006, 21:11	#17 (permalink)
Stephane Hey! Ho! Let's go! Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nantes - France Posts: 742	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Hello, The papers doesn't say much than it is CE certified. No informations on how it passed the tests (no datas available). __________________ Stéphane Hammer-rEvo powered!
(Offline)

23rd October 2006, 21:57	#18 (permalink)
paulraymaekers rEvo's daddy Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Other CCR Home Build Join Date: May 2005 Location: belgium Posts: 1,437	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS Quote: (Originally Posted by Tino Corp.) Hello, The papers doesn't say much than it is CE certified. No informations on how it passed the tests (no datas available). let's not fool ourself! I asked 2 major companies in the UK about CE-ing the rEvo: both gave the same answer: NOT POSSIBLE!! a CMF unit can never pas the tests like they were described in the EN14143! perhaps the 14143 is translated differently in italian :-) regards paul I tried to ask the italian company that issued the CE paper for the submatix: not possible to contact them, phone is never available, the person seems to be unknown __________________ www.rEvo-rebreathers.com .... the earth is flat, Elvis is alive, and radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
(Offline)

25th November 2006, 17:32	#20 (permalink)
seppu i ko nix dafüa Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Inspiration Classic Other CCR Home Build Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: bayern Posts: 192	Re: Submatix CCR 100 SMS hello welcome on board
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