Submatix

andrespp · 26th March 2008, 10:10

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

it gives a fair good indication, because this way you can compare it with other breathers that work well at that depth

problem with small scrubbers: in warm water, relaxed diving, no current etc.. the small scrubber will also work for some time

but in cold water, and hard work: when the sh*t hits the ... ... you're dead!

paul

ps: remember that scrubber performance is FAR from lineair with sorb quantity!! half the volume can mean only 1/4 of the performance, or worse!

Thank you very much for the information, I was not aware of that.

I know some people that is very happy about their Submatix CCRs, but they do not use to go deeper than -50 m, with most dives in the range of -35 m.

Nick Kay · 27th March 2008, 15:39

1. The Sub is rated to 80m and can be returned to the factory to be tweaked to 100m

2. The Sub (normally) uses Spherasorb which has different characteristics to other Sorb - I'll dig out the Sub/Spherasorb info sheet when I get home - it provides "ideal" value for depth/time/temperature/breathing rate. However, I seem to remember that cold water, depth > 35m(?) reduces the sorb life to 2.5hrs

3. As far as I'm concerned the Sub CCR unit is a recreational CCR and I dive it accordingly. If I'd have wanted to do deep stuff (>60m) I wouldn't have bought one. There again, I wouldn't have bought an Inspo either...

4. I'm not going to get into the EC argument, other than to say that the sooner we get an EC agreement on mCCR the better - that should allow a lot more units to be dived.

5. (non-manufacturer) Scrims are available to allow other Sorb to be used but I don't know how this affects useage of the unit???

Guilhem · 27th March 2008, 19:41

Quote: (Originally Posted by Nick Kay)

5. (non-manufacturer) Scrims are available to allow other Sorb to be used but I don't know how this affects useage of the unit???

This is a good topic. I've tried to use Sofnolime, the mesh size that has the smallest grains, and they fall through the grids at both ends of the canister, so obviously I've discarded this. I've now switched to Spherasorb and don't encounter the issue anymore.

**jmurba** · 27th March 2008, 20:52

Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase)

Isnt the IP deturmined by the 02 usage rate of the diver?

Has it got a fixed oraface or does it have a needle valve?

If its a fixed oraface like the KISS then you will need at least 11 bar to go to 100m. Beyound that you will need to alter the oraface size and customise the first stage spring to give a much higher IP

I am reasnobly certain the CE mark has absolutly nothing to do with its abuility to go to X depth, so id ignore that issue.

ATB

Mark

having read the numérous rebreather worls posts about this rebreather certification I would not trust the 100 m certification...
many people say it only have a fake certification for mine use

**jmurba** · 27th March 2008, 21:00

Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers)

there's only one way to compare it with other scrubbers:

show me the graph of the CO2 output during the CE test:

1.6l/min CO2, 40l/min RVM, 40m depth, at 4° celcius: how long does it take to break trough?

paul

I'd also would like to see this graph (((((-:

Guilhem · 28th March 2008, 20:25

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

having read the numérous rebreather worls posts about this rebreather certification I would not trust the 100 m certification...
many people say it only have a fake certification for mine use

Jean-Michel, please, don't beat a dead horse

... This topic was mentioned already at length, and quite frankly, I don't give a dam about the cert. Common sense and knowledge of the capability of the machine are much more important than a sticker, as you well know for diving a non-CE machine.

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

I'd also would like to see this graph (((((-:

That I agree with. It would be nice if each manufacturer could provide a factual datasheet about their products. Alternatively, this could be provided by tek diving magazines. After all, rec diving magazines are plentyful and provide regulator cracking pressure graphs and the like, couldn't a few more tekkie-oriented ones do the same type of work for rebreathers ?

**jmurba** · 29th March 2008, 06:10

I like horses too mutch to beat them...but I 'd like to see this EC certification
really

Quote: (Originally Posted by Guilhem)

Jean-Michel, please, don't beat a dead horse

... This topic was mentioned already at length, and quite frankly, I don't give a dam about the cert. Common sense and knowledge of the capability of the machine are much more important than a sticker, as you well know for diving a non-CE machine.

That I agree with. It would be nice if each manufacturer could provide a factual datasheet about their products. Alternatively, this could be provided by tek diving magazines. After all, rec diving magazines are plentyful and provide regulator cracking pressure graphs and the like, couldn't a few more tekkie-oriented ones do the same type of work for rebreathers ?

Nick Kay · 4th April 2008, 19:21

Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba)

I like horses too mutch to beat them...but I 'd like to see this EC certification
really

Hmmmm - I have a copy of it - or at least an electronic copy of it so I know it exists

Humuhumu · 13th April 2008, 22:06

Submatix m-CCR is OK for more than -100M. I personally know an instructor having a big experience on than machine (-124 M and a couple of hundred hours). If you really need a very good (the best) instructor for this unit, send me a personal message and I will let you know, but please no polemic, I'm not interested by...

Cheers

Stephane · 14th April 2008, 05:54

Quote:

Submatix is CE certified.

In SCR mode only.
I am modifying a unit to put it in CCR mode for a friend and on the instructions paper there is a warning:
«Achtung diese modifikation hat keine CE zulassung» (that is easily understandable for a non german-speaking person)
I can post a photo.

26th March 2008, 10:10	#11 (permalink)
andrespp New Member Current Rebreather/s: Classic Kiss Other Rebreather/s: Join Date: May 2007 Location: Cádiz (Spain) Posts: 50	Re: Submatix Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) it gives a fair good indication, because this way you can compare it with other breathers that work well at that depth problem with small scrubbers: in warm water, relaxed diving, no current etc.. the small scrubber will also work for some time but in cold water, and hard work: when the sh*t hits the ... ... you're dead! paul ps: remember that scrubber performance is FAR from lineair with sorb quantity!! half the volume can mean only 1/4 of the performance, or worse! Thank you very much for the information, I was not aware of that. I know some people that is very happy about their Submatix CCRs, but they do not use to go deeper than -50 m, with most dives in the range of -35 m.
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27th March 2008, 15:39	#12 (permalink)
Nick Kay New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: UK Posts: 29	Re: Submatix 1. The Sub is rated to 80m and can be returned to the factory to be tweaked to 100m 2. The Sub (normally) uses Spherasorb which has different characteristics to other Sorb - I'll dig out the Sub/Spherasorb info sheet when I get home - it provides "ideal" value for depth/time/temperature/breathing rate. However, I seem to remember that cold water, depth > 35m(?) reduces the sorb life to 2.5hrs 3. As far as I'm concerned the Sub CCR unit is a recreational CCR and I dive it accordingly. If I'd have wanted to do deep stuff (>60m) I wouldn't have bought one. There again, I wouldn't have bought an Inspo either... 4. I'm not going to get into the EC argument, other than to say that the sooner we get an EC agreement on mCCR the better - that should allow a lot more units to be dived. 5. (non-manufacturer) Scrims are available to allow other Sorb to be used but I don't know how this affects useage of the unit???
(Offline)

27th March 2008, 19:41	#13 (permalink)
Guilhem New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: South-East France Posts: 57	Re: Submatix Quote: (Originally Posted by Nick Kay) 5. (non-manufacturer) Scrims are available to allow other Sorb to be used but I don't know how this affects useage of the unit??? This is a good topic. I've tried to use Sofnolime, the mesh size that has the smallest grains, and they fall through the grids at both ends of the canister, so obviously I've discarded this. I've now switched to Spherasorb and don't encounter the issue anymore.
(Offline)

27th March 2008, 20:52	#14 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 672	Re: Submatix Quote: (Originally Posted by Mark Chase) Isnt the IP deturmined by the 02 usage rate of the diver? Has it got a fixed oraface or does it have a needle valve? If its a fixed oraface like the KISS then you will need at least 11 bar to go to 100m. Beyound that you will need to alter the oraface size and customise the first stage spring to give a much higher IP I am reasnobly certain the CE mark has absolutly nothing to do with its abuility to go to X depth, so id ignore that issue. ATB Mark having read the numérous rebreather worls posts about this rebreather certification I would not trust the 100 m certification... many people say it only have a fake certification for mine use __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
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27th March 2008, 21:00	#15 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 672	Re: Submatix Quote: (Originally Posted by paulraymaekers) there's only one way to compare it with other scrubbers: show me the graph of the CO2 output during the CE test: 1.6l/min CO2, 40l/min RVM, 40m depth, at 4° celcius: how long does it take to break trough? paul I'd also would like to see this graph (((((-: __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

28th March 2008, 20:25	#16 (permalink)
Guilhem New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: South-East France Posts: 57	Re: Submatix Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) having read the numérous rebreather worls posts about this rebreather certification I would not trust the 100 m certification... many people say it only have a fake certification for mine use Jean-Michel, please, don't beat a dead horse ... This topic was mentioned already at length, and quite frankly, I don't give a dam about the cert. Common sense and knowledge of the capability of the machine are much more important than a sticker, as you well know for diving a non-CE machine. Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) I'd also would like to see this graph (((((-: That I agree with. It would be nice if each manufacturer could provide a factual datasheet about their products. Alternatively, this could be provided by tek diving magazines. After all, rec diving magazines are plentyful and provide regulator cracking pressure graphs and the like, couldn't a few more tekkie-oriented ones do the same type of work for rebreathers ?
(Offline)

29th March 2008, 06:10	#17 (permalink)
jmurba wet bear Current Rebreather/s: Home Build Other Rebreather/s: Home Build Join Date: May 2006 Location: cannes france Posts: 672	Re: Submatix I like horses too mutch to beat them...but I 'd like to see this EC certification really Quote: (Originally Posted by Guilhem) Jean-Michel, please, don't beat a dead horse ... This topic was mentioned already at length, and quite frankly, I don't give a dam about the cert. Common sense and knowledge of the capability of the machine are much more important than a sticker, as you well know for diving a non-CE machine. That I agree with. It would be nice if each manufacturer could provide a factual datasheet about their products. Alternatively, this could be provided by tek diving magazines. After all, rec diving magazines are plentyful and provide regulator cracking pressure graphs and the like, couldn't a few more tekkie-oriented ones do the same type of work for rebreathers ? __________________ when will I be able to think about something else then spending hours underwater, when will I be normal ? http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_2/home.html http://web.mac.com/jmurba/Site_3/home.html
(Offline)

4th April 2008, 19:21	#18 (permalink)
Nick Kay New Member Current Rebreather/s: Other CCR Other Rebreather/s: Other CCR Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: UK Posts: 29	Re: Submatix Quote: (Originally Posted by jmurba) I like horses too mutch to beat them...but I 'd like to see this EC certification really Hmmmm - I have a copy of it - or at least an electronic copy of it so I know it exists
(Offline)

13th April 2008, 22:06	#19 (permalink)
Humuhumu New Member Current Rebreather/s: Inspiration Vision Other Rebreather/s: Not Bought Yet Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Blue Planet Posts: 79	Re: Submatix Submatix m-CCR is OK for more than -100M. I personally know an instructor having a big experience on than machine (-124 M and a couple of hundred hours). If you really need a very good (the best) instructor for this unit, send me a personal message and I will let you know, but please no polemic, I'm not interested by... Cheers __________________ Humuhumu Nukunuku Apua'Ha
(Offline)

14th April 2008, 05:54	#20 (permalink)
Stephane Hey! Ho! Let's go! Current Rebreather/s: rEvo Other Rebreather/s: rEvo Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Nantes - France Posts: 723	Re: Submatix Quote: Submatix is CE certified. In SCR mode only. I am modifying a unit to put it in CCR mode for a friend and on the instructions paper there is a warning: «Achtung diese modifikation hat keine CE zulassung» (that is easily understandable for a non german-speaking person) I can post a photo. __________________ Stéphane Hammer-rEvo powered! Last edited by Stephane : 14th April 2008 at 09:34.
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