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Old 1st May 2013, 17:20   #1
testuser
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Type-R certification

One question:

Doesn't the PADI type R spec say the unit must have some sort of lock-out if the scrubber is not installed? I thought Hollis made a big deal out of this on their 'new' unit (Prism2? I can't quite remember what the name/number of it is currenty). I know it's hard to find a copy, but I would have sworn that was one of the requirements, and I would have sworn that Poseidon had this certified as a Type-R.

I just read of a (another?!) fatality on this unit where the scrubber was missing. I had thought the mk-6 had some engineering solution to that failure mode (checklist or the all-digital on-pendant pre-dive check). I don't dive this unit, so I'm asking you guys.
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Old 1st May 2013, 18:16   #2
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Re: Type-R certification

The Hollis Explorer has a physical lockout that is a spring loaded plunger that must be displaced by the scubber cannister in order to breathe at all.
If you forget to put a cannister in the Explorer it will NOT pass gas thru the loop. The Hollis Prism 2 is considered a Type T and does not have a physical lockout, but it will not Breathe if the scrubber is placed in the unit upside down. Also, the P2 has a clear scubber bucket and it is very easy to see if there is oris not a scubber basket in place.

I looked, but could not find a PADI requirement for lockout (physical or electronic) for type r rebreathers.


Quote: (Originally Posted by testuser) View Original Post
One question:

Doesn't the PADI type R spec say the unit must have some sort of lock-out if the scrubber is not installed? I thought Hollis made a big deal out of this on their 'new' unit (Prism2? I can't quite remember what the name/number of it is currenty). I know it's hard to find a copy, but I would have sworn that was one of the requirements, and I would have sworn that Poseidon had this certified as a Type-R.

I just read of a (another?!) fatality on this unit where the scrubber was missing. I had thought the mk-6 had some engineering solution to that failure mode (checklist or the all-digital on-pendant pre-dive check). I don't dive this unit, so I'm asking you guys.
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Old 1st May 2013, 18:33   #3
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Re: Type-R certification

Here is a picture of the Lockout, it is the green spring loaded plunger-

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Old 1st May 2013, 18:56   #4
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Re: Type-R certification

Quote: (Originally Posted by testuser) View Original Post
One question:

Doesn't the PADI type R spec say the unit must have some sort of lock-out if the scrubber is not installed?
Yes, PADI Manual states, and I quote: "Will not operate or will warn you if the canister is missing"

Quote: (Originally Posted by testuser) View Original Post
I had thought the mk-6 had some engineering solution to that failure mode (checklist or the all-digital on-pendant pre-dive check). I don't dive this unit, so I'm asking you guys.
Now, the MkVI has sort of a reminder that something is not correctly assembled. Apart from the checklist, where the scrubber installation is as a point, you also have a heads-up if the bottom lid of the canister can be tighten all the way to the canister without any resistance. This is a clear warning sign.

So, lets oversee the checklist (human error 1) (or we might have assembled the unit the week before and think we have put in the scrubber.)

Just by looking at the unit, you will see a distinct difference between scrubber/no scrubber, but lets just oversee that one to, we are pretty sure we have a scrubber installed (human error 2).

It is time to dive, a 3 min prebreathe will give you some warning signs. like a light headache. A 5 min (recommended) prebreathe will give a very clear warning that something is not right. You will now be fatigue. But lets just oversee that one too (Human Error 3, and probably the last error that will be made).

So back to the whole PADI statement... Will the MkVI warn you if there is no scrubber? - Yes, if you follow the checklist, or look at the unit, or do your prebreathe. If you dont, - No! But then again, if you are in the habit of skipping steps, you might want to consider a change in hobby. Also, a warning system for detecting a scrubber will only state that there is a scrubber or not. Not if it is okay to dive with or if it is a old scrubber.

Last edited by Jeppe_E; 1st May 2013 at 19:06..
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Old 1st May 2013, 18:57   #5
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Re: Type-R certification

If you are the type of person who will jump in without your scrubber and pre breath you are probably the type of person who will jump in without changing their scrubber and so a scrubber lock out isnt gonna help you there.
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Old 1st May 2013, 19:15   #6
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Re: Type-R certification

Yes, Jeppe is right, Page 22 of the PADI Rebreather diver course it lists -

1. Prepacked Scubber
2. Will not operate or will warn you if the cannister is missing
3. Has system for estimating Scubber duration
4. Has system for low or closed gas supply, low battery, High or Low PO2
5. Has open circuit second stage supplied by diluent cylinder for sharing gas with another diver. ( required for PADI Rebreather diver course -Optional for Adv RB diver course if using BO cylinder
6. Includes a black box data recorder function in electronics

So, the answer is No, actually. PADI does not require a physical Lockout or any lockout if you consider a failed prebreathe a warning.

Last edited by H2Ocaver; 1st May 2013 at 19:17..
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Old 1st May 2013, 19:21   #7
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Re: Type-R certification

Actually yes it will, because if you do not put the scrubber cannister in the Explorer, it will not breathe at all. Also if you put the cannister in and there is no scubber or useless scubber, the Explore will note that the temperature is not changing appropriately and will give red HUD and Screen warnings. if you continue from there, well, u get the point.

Quote: (Originally Posted by Steve Philipson) View Original Post
If you are the type of person who will jump in without your scrubber and pre breath you are probably the type of person who will jump in without changing their scrubber and so a scrubber lock out isnt gonna help you there.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 03:36   #8
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Re: Type-R certification

Quote: (Originally Posted by H2Ocaver) View Original Post
Actually yes it will, because if you do not put the scrubber cannister in the Explorer, it will not breathe at all. Also if you put the cannister in and there is no scubber or useless scubber, the Explore will note that the temperature is not changing appropriately and will give red HUD and Screen warnings. if you continue from there, well, u get the point.
Ah, it takes what, up to 20 minutes for a rebreaher to fully warm up? So by this measure it is no warning.

Does the unit warn you there is no scrubber? Not look funny, not way the temperature is a bit low, not have a lack of resistence when assembling, but a warning.

It is clear the answer is no.

I wonder if we will see a recall, either of the units or of all the PADI certifications issued...

cheers

Andy
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Old 2nd May 2013, 04:27   #9
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Re: Type-R certification

My understanding is that the .mk6 will also fail test 49 without a scrubber as it can't get a large enough pressure increase during the positive pressure test.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 07:08   #10
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Re: Type-R certification

Quote: (Originally Posted by diver albie) View Original Post
My understanding is that the .mk6 will also fail test 49 without a scrubber as it can't get a large enough pressure increase during the positive pressure test.
That's pretty interesting, does anyone know if that's how Posiedon got it PADI approved?

Also, do you happen to know what happens if you try and dive it with errors? Will it do it's best to maintain it's setpoint anyway?
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