+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: Hammerhead Reset uw ??? and Solenoid closed ???

  1. #1
    Deep Cave Explorer DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    359

    Hammerhead Reset uw ??? and Solenoid closed ???

    A friend of mine diving a classic Kiss powered by a Hammerhead had a bit of a trouble recently, he asked me to post and translate his misfortune to see if anybody have a clue of what could have been the cause of the failure uw:


    English For the end of 2006 we decided to dive a spring south of France.
    The goal of the exploration was to photograph an airbell midway inside the cave.
    Before the dive as always I prepared my classic Kiss powered by a Hammerhead with new batteries and new sorb, everything seems to work ok.
    Run time expected between 3h-3h30
    After 15 minutes in the -80m area we were at the junction where we had to go up in the direction of the airbell.
    First deco stop around -30m, then arriving at the -15m stop the Hammerhead was still showing 50 minutes deco, I decided to raise the ppo2 from 1,4 to 1,6 AND THEN: the Hammerhead switched himself off and on rebooting himself loosing all decompression data AND the solenoid staying closed not working anymore. I concluded to a low level battery.

    The return was ok, copying my deco on my budy vr3 and flying manually the unit.
    Out of the water I checked the battery level who was 1.4 V !!! not so low ?

    WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT GUYS ?


    FR Pour cette fin d'année, nous avions décidé de plonger une résurgence du sud de la France.

    Le but de l'exploration était de photographier une cloche se situant au milieu du parcours.
    Avant cette plongée, comme à l'accoutumé, je prépare mon recycleur ClassicKiss à électronique HammerHead ; chaux et piles neuves puis test +/-, tout est OK.
    C'est parti pour une plongée d'un runtime évalué à 3h00/3h30.
    Après un parcours d'une quinzaine de minutes dans la zone des -80 m de profondeur, nous voici arrivés à la bifurcation près à entamer la remontée de la cloche.
    Les premiers paliers débutent vers -30 m puis arrivé à celui de -15 m et restant encore 50 minutes de décompression, je décide de montée ma PpO2 sur l'ordinateur du HammerHead, quand celui ci s'éteigna et reboota perdant ainsi toutes mes données de décompression.
    Le solénoïde arreta d'injecter et je conclue donc à une alimentation trop faible.
    Le retour s'effectua sans encombre copiant ma décompression sur le VR3 de mon binome en injectant manuellement l'oxygène.
    A la sortie de l'eau, je vérifiais la tension de la pile source d'un retour prématuré; résultat 1.40 V ?!! ce qui parait pas si faible ?
    Qu'en pensez vous ?
    Merci

  2. #2
    Moderator jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    "Da" Bronx
    Posts
    4,116
    Hammehead & rEvo & Custom

    KISS,Optima,Inspiration,Meg

    Re: Hammerhead Reset uw ??? and Solenoid closed ???

    A few questions?? What type of battery, When it was tested what type of load was it tested on?? If it was just measured by a volt meter, the 1.4v is an invalid assessment..

    What version of the HH does he have, were they plastic or aluminum handsets??

    Iy they were aluminum, how recent?? If they are older than late summer did he take any of the precautions or suggested modifications that have been posted on this board??

    With a new battery is the solenoid working??

    Is he using a normal reg for the first stage or is it IP ifxed??

    What was the IP?? On a new batter it will owrk on pressures above normal. but as the battery decause it gets harder to open..


    Quote Originally Posted by DrJM  View Original Post
    A friend of mine diving a classic Kiss powered by a Hammerhead had a bit of a trouble recently, he asked me to post and translate his misfortune to see if anybody have a clue of what could have been the cause of the failure uw:


    English For the end of 2006 we decided to dive a spring south of France.
    The goal of the exploration was to photograph an airbell midway inside the cave.
    Before the dive as always I prepared my classic Kiss powered by a Hammerhead with new batteries and new sorb, everything seems to work ok.
    Run time expected between 3h-3h30
    After 15 minutes in the -80m area we were at the junction where we had to go up in the direction of the airbell.
    First deco stop around -30m, then arriving at the -15m stop the Hammerhead was still showing 50 minutes deco, I decided to raise the ppo2 from 1,4 to 1,6 AND THEN: the Hammerhead switched himself off and on rebooting himself loosing all decompression data AND the solenoid staying closed not working anymore. I concluded to a low level battery.

    The return was ok, copying my deco on my budy vr3 and flying manually the unit.
    Out of the water I checked the battery level who was 1.4 V !!! not so low ?

    WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT IT GUYS ?


    FR Pour cette fin d'année, nous avions décidé de plonger une résurgence du sud de la France.
    Le but de l'exploration était de photographier une cloche se situant au milieu du parcours.
    Avant cette plongée, comme à l'accoutumé, je prépare mon recycleur ClassicKiss à électronique HammerHead ; chaux et piles neuves puis test +/-, tout est OK.
    C'est parti pour une plongée d'un runtime évalué à 3h00/3h30.
    Après un parcours d'une quinzaine de minutes dans la zone des -80 m de profondeur, nous voici arrivés à la bifurcation près à entamer la remontée de la cloche.
    Les premiers paliers débutent vers -30 m puis arrivé à celui de -15 m et restant encore 50 minutes de décompression, je décide de montée ma PpO2 sur l'ordinateur du HammerHead, quand celui ci s'éteigna et reboota perdant ainsi toutes mes données de décompression.
    Le solénoïde arreta d'injecter et je conclue donc à une alimentation trop faible.
    Le retour s'effectua sans encombre copiant ma décompression sur le VR3 de mon binome en injectant manuellement l'oxygène.
    A la sortie de l'eau, je vérifiais la tension de la pile source d'un retour prématuré; résultat 1.40 V ?!! ce qui parait pas si faible ?
    Qu'en pensez vous ?
    Merci


    100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
    Joe Radomski
    CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer
    ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10

    All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.

  3. #3
    Deep Cave Explorer DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM is a glorious beacon of light DrJM's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    France
    Posts
    359

    Re: Hammerhead Reset uw ??? and Solenoid closed ???

    >>What type of battery

    Energiser ultimate AA alcaline

    >>When it was tested what type of load was it tested on??

    Note tested before the dive

    >>If it was just measured by a volt meter, the 1.4v is an invalid assessment..

    could you explain briefly why ?

    >>What version of the HH does he have, were they plastic or aluminum handsets??

    rev B plastic


    >>With a new battery is the solenoid working??

    yes

    >>Is he using a normal reg for the first stage or is it IP ifxed??

    normal reg


    >>What was the IP?? On a new batter it will owrk on pressures above normal. but as the battery decause it gets harder to open.

    IP non fix based around 9b + amb P

    Question: if the solenoid is the same as the one used on the Mk15.5 why would the opening mecanism would be related to the IP ? I used to play below 16b of amb P with my 15.5 in the old time w/out any problems

    Thanks for the help

    Jerome

  4. #4
    Moderator jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    "Da" Bronx
    Posts
    4,116
    Hammehead & rEvo & Custom

    KISS,Optima,Inspiration,Meg

    Re: Hammerhead Reset uw ??? and Solenoid closed ???

    Quote Originally Posted by DrJM  View Original Post
    >>>>If it was just measured by a volt meter, the 1.4v is an invalid assessment..

    could you explain briefly why ?

    Jerome
    open circuit voltage does not show the state of a cell, a battery can be nearly dead but still show a good voltage without load.. The longer the battery stands the more no load voltage that can recover..

    The stronger the cell the greater load it can maintain a constant voltage.. A reasonable load to test a 1.5v cell (in a HH) is 100ma since the HH will pull peaks of at least 400ma, and aveage load in this range (using a 1.5v cell, using a 3,6v cell the average and peak current will be less than half this)..

    since its a rev b plastic, I would assume a weak battery.. I would also look at what the IP is, the higher it is the greater the load it will put on the battery and reduce the life..

    The solenoid having to fire for a continuos time plus having the backlight on at the same time can put a significant drain on the battery.. using a 1.5v cel, I wouldn't be surprised seeing a peek instaneous urrent approaching 1 amp..

    I always recommend to divers that I train to manually bring the po2 above their target before pressing any of the buttons, this prevents two vary high drain devics from loading the battery at the same time..



    100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
    Last edited by jradomski; 13th January 2007 at 12:09.
    Joe Radomski
    CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer
    ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10

    All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.

  5. #5
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    5,208
    JJ Hybrid

    Inspo, Hammer Head, KISS rEvo

    Re: Hammerhead Reset uw ??? and Solenoid closed ???

    Hi Jerome

    This sounds like the problem we were having on the Aluminum bodied units where contact was broken or intermittent on the battery housing due to build up of aluminum oxide on the threads. However I am assuming due to the unit having plastic hand sets this problem is unique to the later mettle hand set models.

    I had a depth sensor fail on the unit on my last dive. I lost all deco info and the solenoid stopped firing. I was left with PPo2 readouts only and did the dive manually. If the unit rebooted i didn't notice, but for some strange reason it all started working again above 20m.

    After the dive the unit read 3m and refused to switch off. Then i took the battery out left it a while and put it back in. The unit took its self for a dive to 400m :D

    I sent picks to Kevin who understood the problem straight away and is sending me out some replacement parts.

    There are some similarities in the failure mode so maybe thats worth looking into. First person to ask is Kevin he seems very open and helpfull with me.


    ATB

    Mark Chase

  6. #6
    Submerge Productions PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Malta (Rabat)
    Posts
    1,178

    Re: Hammerhead Reset uw ??? and Solenoid closed ???

    Mark,
    What was Kevin's analysis of your depth sensor problem: blocked hole, broken sensor or something else?

    Peter

  7. #7
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    5,208
    JJ Hybrid

    Inspo, Hammer Head, KISS rEvo

    Re: Hammerhead Reset uw ??? and Solenoid closed ???

    Quote Originally Posted by PCDiver  View Original Post
    Mark,
    What was Kevin's analysis of your depth sensor problem: blocked hole, broken sensor or something else?

    Peter
    Its the latest revision of the unit so it had the new groove for the sensor not a hole. I am assuming a defective sensor as the erratic readings are very similar to depth sensor issues I have suffered on dive computers in the past.

    Sadly diving computer depth sensors are a bit fragile.

    ATB

    Mark Chase

  8. #8
    Submerge Productions PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver is a splendid one to behold PCDiver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Malta (Rabat)
    Posts
    1,178

    Re: Hammerhead Reset uw ??? and Solenoid closed ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    Its the latest revision of the unit so it had the new groove for the sensor not a hole. I am assuming a defective sensor as the erratic readings are very similar to depth sensor issues I have suffered on dive computers in the past.

    Sadly diving computer depth sensors are a bit fragile.

    ATB

    Mark Chase
    There still is a hole under the metal bezel going through the plastic cover. If you need a quick fix you could do the following:
    1. to take the metal cover off
    2. take the plastic cover off
    3. remove the depth sensor (two screws) - carefull, it could be sucked in the opening
    4. remove all silicone that covers the sensor hole
    5. put some silicone inside the hole (fill it completely)
    6. put the sensor back in, the silicone will squirt through the little opening
    7. use the little screws as adjusters for the pressure, the depth reading should be 0
    8. reassemble everything (have fun with the large o-ring. It tends to flip out of the grove. I put it in the freezer to make it stiffer. Stretching it might also help.)

    I used this with success for an in-the-field repair.

    HTH,

    Peter

  9. #9
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    5,208
    JJ Hybrid

    Inspo, Hammer Head, KISS rEvo

    Re: Hammerhead Reset uw ??? and Solenoid closed ???

    Quote Originally Posted by PCDiver  View Original Post
    There still is a hole under the metal bezel going through the plastic cover. If you need a quick fix you could do the following:
    1. to take the metal cover off
    2. take the plastic cover off
    3. remove the depth sensor (two screws) - carefull, it could be sucked in the opening
    4. remove all silicone that covers the sensor hole
    5. put some silicone inside the hole (fill it completely)
    6. put the sensor back in, the silicone will squirt through the little opening
    7. use the little screws as adjusters for the pressure, the depth reading should be 0
    8. reassemble everything (have fun with the large o-ring. It tends to flip out of the grove. I put it in the freezer to make it stiffer. Stretching it might also help.)

    I used this with success for an in-the-field repair.

    HTH,

    Peter
    Great tip thanks.

    ATB

    Mark Chase

  10. #10
    Moderator jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski has a reputation beyond repute jradomski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    "Da" Bronx
    Posts
    4,116
    Hammehead & rEvo & Custom

    KISS,Optima,Inspiration,Meg

    Re: Hammerhead Reset uw ??? and Solenoid closed ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    Hi Jerome

    This sounds like the problem we were having on the Aluminum bodied units where contact was broken or intermittent on the battery housing due to build up of aluminum oxide on the threads. However I am assuming due to the unit having plastic hand sets this problem is unique to the later mettle hand set models.

    I had a depth sensor fail on the unit on my last dive. I lost all deco info and the solenoid stopped firing. I was left with PPo2 readouts only and did the dive manually. If the unit rebooted i didn't notice, but for some strange reason it all started working again above 20m.
    Mark Chase

    Mark the older units did not have contact issues unless things were really badly taken care of.. The plastic units had a brass ring with a ss battery cap.. losing contact was not an issue.. It really sounds like a weak battery.. of all the revisions rev B usually had the highest battery drain. The best battery life I experienced was from Rev A sets but they required 2 3.6v 1/2 aa cells each so cost was higher.. I never got less than 3 weeks out of a set..

    The older units also used a totally different sensor, that was an analog pressure transducer.. There were rarely any problems here except an occasional calibration issue (a bit off) or totally off if someone went into the diagnostics menu and erased the cal data by selecting initialize unit..

    starting with the metal units, JM switched to a digital pressure sensor.. These are the same thats used by several people including delta p.. They are a good sensor (accuracy wise to 130m, not great beyond this) but do a have track record of problems that had to be solved by each user for their application (mounting, leaking, and "stuck" reading issues)..



    100% free webcam site! | Awesome chicks and it is absolutely free! | Watch free live sex cam - easy as 1-2-3
    Joe Radomski
    CCR Trimix Instructor Trainer
    ANDI Instructor Trainer Director #10

    All posts are personal opinions and DO NOT reflect any affiliated agency unless specifically stated.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts