View Poll Results: Cave Membership Associations Poll

Voters
62. You may not vote on this poll
  • Are you a non-instructor member of the NSS-CDS?

    9 14.52%
  • Are you a non-instructor member of the NACD?

    5 8.06%
  • Are you a non-instructor member of the NSS-CDD & NACD?

    4 6.45%
  • Are you an instructor & member of the NSS-CDS?

    0 0%
  • Are you an instructor & member of the NACD?

    1 1.61%
  • Are you an instructor member of the NSS-CDS & NACD?

    1 1.61%
  • Were you a member of the NSS-CDS & dropped your membership?

    5 8.06%
  • Were you a member of the NACD & dropped your membership?

    3 4.84%
  • Cave Diver, but never a member of any association

    34 54.84%
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Thread: Cave Associations Membership Poll

  1. #11

    Re: Cave Associations Membership Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Joe  View Original Post
    I think the agency role has been confused over the years. They were originally intended to promote cave conservation and teach and develop methods of safe cave diving. IMO, they have evolved into commercial training agencies whose broad scope presents a conflict of interest. The training now belongs in the private sector. The role of the agencies should be to stand watch dog over what the private sector is doing and lending their collective expertise to the development of safer methodology.
    I agree with this 100%. I believe the focus of the CDS and NACD should be on cave access and the watchdog role you outline. It became very clear to me that - as a non resident of Florida - it would be impossible for me to make that opinion heard.

    As such, I decided to not join an organization that discouraged my participation.

  2. #12
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    Re: Cave Associations Membership Poll

    Yep.

    I refused to join the NACD as they only permit voting if you've passed full cave - which means you have to agree with their worldview before you can vote! That's a nice way to make sure nothing ever changes... no thanks. Never mind the raw nepotism and effective "ownership" of the organization by one person. IMHO the NACD is a membership organization in name only.

    I was a member of the NSS/CDS until the fiasco with their election where virtually the entire standing slate withdrew a month before balllots were due, essentially making it a "void" election. All this was over political (and some internal business) matters that IMHO reeked of intentional obfuscation and perhaps even misuse of section funds.

    I was approached with the line "if you don't like it run for the board"; they, of course, make that virtually impossible as the section refuses to use technology to allow distant board meetings and travel to High Springs is mandatory to attend the meetings - not realistic when you're a single parent of a 10 year old and the site is six hours drive time off. They don't seem to care (or notice) that there are caves in places other than High Springs....

    The not-so-amusing part of this is that there are sane voices on the board of the NSS/CDS. You just never hear them. Again - politics. Debate never happens externally where people can hear and contribute to it, which is a major problem. Both organizations have "gag orders" prohibiting the decision makers from voicing their opinion and entertaining public debate.

    Yet how do you make sound policy without public debate?

    If your goal is to be an insular organization, then I guess it works. But theirs is much more lofty.

    While the dues are not large, I want to support organizations that believe as I do, or at least which will engage in a public debate on the principlies and positions they advocate.

  3. #13
    Banned dgschott is on a distinguished road dgschott is on a distinguished road dgschott's Avatar
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    Re: Cave Associations Membership Poll

    Hi - I was just curious who on RBW was a member of one or the other an who wasn't.... I thought the results would be insteresting, and yes - I Have many opinions about both of those agencies and have shared many in my last post on training and standards, but it's really has nothing to do with good or bad opinions...

    Quote Originally Posted by cedricverdier  View Original Post
    Hi,

    Would it be possible to know the goal of this poll?

    Do you have any concern about one or both associations?
    Do you want to share your opinion about these associations?

    Cheers

  4. #14
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    Re: Cave Associations Membership Poll

    You forgot the CDAA...

  5. #15
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    Re: Cave Associations Membership Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by AMW  View Original Post
    CDG founded 1946

    Andrew
    And me! Well, once I pay this year's subs :)

    I've got a NACD cert for diving in less civilized parts of the world that haven't heard of the CDG

    Cheers,

    Stuart

  6. #16
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    Re: Cave Associations Membership Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by hchoat  View Original Post
    2. I am a former instructor-member of the NACD. I resigned the beginning of November for a number of reasons- which I'll be happy to elaborate if anyone is interested.

    I'm interested. Not sure if you're willing to post publically but a PM would be cool too.

    Also wonder if you have any insight into the resignation of my Intro instructor Ross Noble. Heard through the grapevine that it was "politics" but no details.

  7. #17

    Re: Cave Associations Membership Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by AMW  View Original Post
    CDG founded 1946
    Ditto - and they were diving closed circuit then as well. Open circuit came in during the '60's.

    Edit: I was a member of NSS-CDS when I lived in the US.

    PS. Only Qualified CDG divers can vote on matters pertaining to Membership/Qualification.
    Last edited by Duncan Price; 12th December 2006 at 12:37.

  8. #18
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    Re: Cave Associations Membership Poll

    NSS-CDS, family membership since 1997.

    Dive safe,

    Celia

  9. #19
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    Re: Cave Associations Membership Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by hchoat  View Original Post
    OK, this one is dificult, as I fall into multiple categories.

    1. I am a non- instructor member of the NSS-CDS (as I am not a CDS instructor).

    2. I am a former instructor-member of the NACD. I resigned the beginning of November for a number of reasons- which I'll be happy to elaborate if anyone is interested.

    3. I am a Cave Diving instructor for another entity (NAUI).

    Now I'm off to teach Cave Diving.... in sub freezing temps grrrrrrr.
    Come on, Heather sub freezing;)

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