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Thread: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips

  1. #21
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    Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips

    The kind of restriction seems to be showing up more and more now that CC diving is becoming more popular. I believe there was a issue with the Odessy live aboards in the Truk area awhile ago and now this one. Working on a RB in a open area like the swim platform is just asking for problems, especially in rolling water. Sounds like some folks are trying to conform to this charter operators rules and yes, his boat, his rules I agree. I think its a case if thats the way it is, then simply don't use them.

    Just my 2 cents.

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    Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips

    I get the feeling that this something new and itís just a matter of working out the bugs.
    So know itís a transition issue.


    Spill containment units can be purchased cheap.
    Once we show how we keep the units off his deck, and away from the OC units- problems solved. Put the spill unit on the back deck and sweep up the excess and dump it into a sealable bucket, problem solved.


    Unfortunately, a lot of this was precipitated by a prior accident. If we could get a few locals diving the boat and showing we can be responsible then we can work out the kinks. This is in my backyard and one of my better options.
    Hence my willingness to really work on this.
    Andrew

  3. #23
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    Update and Further Clarification

    Rigdiver and myself had the opportunity to catch up with Capt. Frank on the floor at DEMA to get some clarification of the policies. I have permission to regurgitate our discussion (...the best I can).

    Modifications
    The intent here is to not allow units that are "duct taped" together or heavily modified to the point that they are not safe (i.e., 80cf tanks on Draegar). Unfortunately, there is a hard ruling on home-built units. At this point in time, they are not allowed. Only OEM units are allowed. Permissible modifications to OEM units include such things as: travel frames, 4th cell add-ons, BOVs, swap from Air2 to standard reg, Shearwater Meg, Shearwater KISS, larger tanks on units that are designed for it, etc. The components included in the modification should come from insured manufacturers. This means they do not want to see home made: BOVs, O2 cells, regulators, BCs, cylinders, electronics, etc.

    Gas
    Capt. Frank understands a booster is necessary for the CCR divers. He's actively looking for a unit that can be used on the deck. On the sport(or rec) trips (which is what we are discussing), there will be no use of Trimix, Heliox, or any other diluent but Air/Nitrox.

    Dive Time
    Some have mentioned that OC and CCR divers will run different profiles. Remember, on the MV Spree (and MV Fling) for sport trips, there is a 130fsw limit on your first dive of the day. All dives after your first dive can go to a max of 100fsw. Total run time is to be right around 60 minutes. I don't believe you'll get beat on deck with a leather bull whip for coming up with 65 minutes. However, at a 90 minute run time, you might question whether its worth getting back on the boat. You can spend as much time at the bottom as you wish provided you are back in an hour and you don't inccur any mandatory deco obligation. Mostly, the one hour run time is to keep everyone on schedule. There is a 2.5 hour surface interval required for all divers starting from the last person back onboard. So, he doesn't want to let the CCR divers get the schedule all out of whack. Please consider the DMs need to eat and rest a bit too from servicing two dozen divers

    OC Bailout
    Bring sufficient bailout to bring you or your OC/CC buddy back to the surface. If that means you need offboard cylinders, you can BYOB (Bring Your Own Bottles:D ) or I *think* you might be able to rent from the MV Spree or maybe they would come with the package. We didn't discuss these otions so the answer is not available for me to print. But, I believe you probably could have access to cylinders since they have lots. Although they are all AL80s. As they move forward, this would get worked out I'm sure.

    Onboard Cylinders
    Capt. Frank is in the process of procuring cylinders so long haul travelers wouldn't need to worry about lugging cylinders. Even in the short term, he has access to a limited number of cylinders for the Inspiration.

    Scrubber Refilling
    There is some thought of allowing this process to take place on the far back deck in lieu of the swim platform. The only concern is wind sweeping absorbent dust around.


    I have written everything the best I can from memory. I'm sure I'll be corrected by Capt. Frank if it's inaccurate. If you are serious about booking on one of the sport trips with your rebreather, give Capt. Frank a call to discuss your particular issues. He's a very reasonable guy to talk with. You can find him here.

    Remember, the tech trips are almost unlimited (2.5 hour run time). So, if you don't like the rules on the sport/rec trips, by all means sign up for one of the tech trips. Those are over deeper waters anyway and are set up specifically to allow the rebreather diver to unleash the full potential of his/her unit.

    If you have a group of divers and want to book the boat for yourself to exclude "knuckleheads", you can do that as well and call your own destination.
    Last edited by PacketSniffer; 12th November 2006 at 21:25.

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    Conclusion

    The policy has been published for the 2007 diving season.

    Spree Expeditions: Rebreather Sport Diving Policies

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    Re: Conclusion

    Quote Originally Posted by PacketSniffer  View Original Post
    The policy has been published for the 2007 diving season.

    Spree Expeditions: Rebreather Sport Diving Policies
    This out fit would last about 5mins in the uk ,

  6. #26
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    Unfortunately, the litigious society here and growth is slower.
    So what is acceptable in the UK will not fly here.
    People that I speak with are amazed by the paperwork that we generate here verses in other places.
    However, this does limit the liability of the boat and provides us access for rebreather divers.

    Plus, the boat does two tech trips a year where you can dive whatever profiles you would like. That is if they do not get blown out.

    This is a change for the better and they are willing to listen and grow with the community- that I am grateful for.

    I have dove with this outfit and they are first rate.

    Please do not compare this to what files in the UK.
    It is a different environment, different laws and it is degrading to those of us that are trying to open up the boat for access.

    Have a nice afternoon, Andrew


    Quote Originally Posted by Gobfish1  View Original Post
    This out fit would last about 5mins in the uk ,

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    Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazyduck  View Original Post
    Unfortunately, the litigious society here and growth is slower.
    So what is acceptable in the UK will not fly here.
    People that I speak with are amazed by the paperwork that we generate here verses in other places.
    However, this does limit the liability of the boat and provides us access for rebreather divers.

    Plus, the boat does two tech trips a year where you can dive whatever profiles you would like. That is if they do not get blown out.

    This is a change for the better and they are willing to listen and grow with the community- that I am grateful for.

    I have dove with this outfit and they are first rate.

    Please do not compare this to what files in the UK.
    It is a different environment, different laws and it is degrading to those of us that are trying to open up the boat for access.

    Have a nice afternoon, Andrew
    Hi Andrew
    Hope you get to open up your boat access, soon ,
    two tech trips a year were you can dive the profile you want,
    sound s like you have your work cut out,

    Good luck

  8. #28
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    Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazyduck  View Original Post
    Unfortunately, the litigious society here and growth is slower.
    So what is acceptable in the UK will not fly here.
    People that I speak with are amazed by the paperwork that we generate here verses in other places.
    However, this does limit the liability of the boat and provides us access for rebreather divers.
    Then fix the law.

    Florida has. Case law in Florida is that a diving release is absolutely enforceable. End of discussion, full-stop.

    I've posted the cite before here and will again if it helps. Arguments that this is "about liability" - in Florida at least - are vacuous.

    It is, in fact, about control, although you hear this BS about "liability" here in Florida all the time. Sorry, nope - the Florida Court of Appeals says "no it ain't" - end of discussion.

    Now Texas may not be the same, but if that's the case, then fix the problem instead of applying band-aids to a sucking chest wound.

  9. #29
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    Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips

    Yep, we have an insane amount of barriers and limitations.

    One of our problems is that the boat had an accident and it has made the process worse than normal. So now we have to deal with containment issues for blown scrubber and how to work within their envelope of their acceptable limits.

    I am sorry if I came off a little harsh but it has been hard work and some people cruise these boards looking for reasons to inhibit the growth process.

    Not to mention this is one of the few good size boats that makes it out to the gardens. 110 miles off shore, 60 ft floor to the tie in, 80 degree water temp, and lots of incredible life. Hammerheads in the spring, occasional interesting sharks, mantas, lots cool stuff.

    Now we just need to keep our noses clean and things will be looking good.

    Andrew

    Quote Originally Posted by Gobfish1  View Original Post
    Hi Andrew
    Hope you get to open up your boat access, soon ,
    two tech trips a year were you can dive the profile you want,
    sound s like you have your work cut out,

    Good luck

  10. #30
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    Re: Spree Expeditions: Rebreathers on livaboard dive boat sport trips

    Dive Time
    Some have mentioned that OC and CCR divers will run different profiles. Remember, on the MV Spree (and MV Fling) for sport trips, there is a 130fsw limit on your first dive of the day. All dives after your first dive can go to a max of 100fsw. Total run time is to be right around 60 minutes. I don't believe you'll get beat on deck with a leather bull whip for coming up with 65 minutes. However, at a 90 minute run time, you might question whether its worth getting back on

    Putting up with the above on a dive trip just makes a rod for your own back s
    Sport divers can dive to 50m with deco, in the UK
    We donít class this as tec diving , and if we wanted to do that twice a day we would be able to,
    Sounds to me like there is to much already written in stone for you ever to be able to enjoy diving ccr, .

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