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Thread: The right tool for the job??

  1. #1
    RBW Member Anders Knudsen is an unknown quantity at this point Anders Knudsen's Avatar
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    The right tool for the job??

    Hello RB world,

    This is my first post, and I hope I have found the right place to post.
    I am not a rebreather diver yet, but as most other divers I am thinking about going SCR or CCR, not because I need it on all my dives, but as my diving progress, I hope to have more dives below 75m, and below that depth, I see a huge benefit of using a rebreather ( to carry enough bottom gas, can be difficult if you want some reasonable, especially in a cave )

    I am not in the market yet, but you guys could might inspire me.

    What would be the rebreather of choice if money wasn’t an issue??

    I have been looking at a couple of different units ranging from.
    RB80 though KISS classic to Megladon/inspiration

    I think I have to tell a bit about my diving.

    I like the Idea of having little or no electronics as in the RB80 and the KISS, but regarding the KISS isn’t it annoying/difficult to add O2 all the time??
    The RB80 is nice, no doubt – but you don’t get the benefit of constant Ppo2. but it gives me what I wont a machine which give me more time before MG ( minimum gas ) is reached, what are the other pros and cons regarding this unit??
    Meg is as I see it, a great looking machine, but I don’t like the idea of OTS counter lungs, is that a problem???

    Do you measure CO or CO2 on the RB´S ?
    On the CCR´s do you have the possibility of using them SCR if the electronics fails?

    What to look for??

    best regards

    Anders Knudsen

  2. #2
    RBW Member aki will become famous soon enough aki will become famous soon enough aki will become famous soon enough aki's Avatar
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    Re: The right tool for the job??

    Anders,

    First of all, welcome to the board. You can find great amount of knowledge from this forum and hopefully it'll guide you to the right directon (what ever that will be).

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Knudsen  View Original Post
    What would be the rebreather of choice if money wasn’t an issue??
    I'm really happy with my Inspiration Vision, how ever I was first looking for something more DIR'ish kit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Knudsen  View Original Post
    I like the Idea of having little or no electronics as in the RB80 and the KISS, but regarding the KISS isn’t it annoying/difficult to add O2 all the time??
    Even with rebreather that has electronics you need to be comfortable of easily driving your unit manually. It's actually really nice every once and a while to run it manually even if you have electronics to take care of that part.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Knudsen  View Original Post
    Meg is as I see it, a great looking machine, but I don’t like the idea of OTS counter lungs, is that a problem???
    I also don't like the idea of having OTS counter lungs as before I started with RB I was used to have clean front. You'll get used to the counter lungs, but would be nice to have them at back.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Knudsen  View Original Post
    Do you measure CO or CO2 on the RB´S ?

    There is no real CO2 monitor for RB's. I think the closest one is the Tempstik in Inspiration Vision and Evolution units from APD. How ever I've understood that APD has one coming up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Knudsen  View Original Post
    On the CCR´s do you have the possibility of using them SCR if the electronics fails?
    This is one of the important things that are learned in the course as it gives you a lot of more gas if something goes wrong.

    --
    Aki

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    Pelagian DCCCR

    Classic KISS, Megalodon

    Re: The right tool for the job??

    There will alot of people more experienced writning after me in this tread but here are some of my thoughts...

    -I used to dive a Classic KISS and I felt it was a great machine for me to start off with but after a while I came to the conclusion that to get it to perform the way I wanted it, I would have to change so many things that it would cost more than to buy in this case the Megalodon I wanted....(you can put whatever you want on your VW and it might look like a BMW but it still would be a VW,sort of)

    -I have dived both ots-lungs and backmounted lungs and cant say that ots-lungs are in my way...on the other hand they breathe better I think..

    -I have never dived the RB 80 but have quite a few friends that have and does...they say its a great tool and works very nice in one perticular position in the water and if scootering.....but swimming with it dont seem to be a great experience.

    The best rebreather for you might be a very different thing from what others need...

    If you ever pop by Denmark you should talk to Rasmus Lauritsen at NORTECH DIVING.DK ..last I heard he could let you have a look and trydive no less than 11 different rebreathers..

    Anyway....
    I hope you find the right tool for the diving you want to do and get the same satisfaction out of your diving as I get:)

    Cheers
    Rodge

  4. #4
    RBW Member caver95 will become famous soon enough caver95 will become famous soon enough caver95 will become famous soon enough caver95's Avatar
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    Re: The right tool for the job??

    Good luck, and thanks for the pics.

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    Re: The right tool for the job??

    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Knudsen  View Original Post
    Hello RB world,

    This is my first post, and I hope I have found the right place to post.
    I am not a rebreather diver yet, but as most other divers I am thinking about going SCR or CCR, not because I need it on all my dives, but as my diving progress, I hope to have more dives below 75m, and below that depth, I see a huge benefit of using a rebreather ( to carry enough bottom gas, can be difficult if you want some reasonable, especially in a cave )

    I am not in the market yet, but you guys could might inspire me.

    What would be the rebreather of choice if money wasn’t an issue??

    I have been looking at a couple of different units ranging from.
    RB80 though KISS classic to Megladon/inspiration

    I think I have to tell a bit about my diving.

    I like the Idea of having little or no electronics as in the RB80 and the KISS, but regarding the KISS isn’t it annoying/difficult to add O2 all the time??
    The RB80 is nice, no doubt – but you don’t get the benefit of constant Ppo2. but it gives me what I wont a machine which give me more time before MG ( minimum gas ) is reached, what are the other pros and cons regarding this unit??
    Meg is as I see it, a great looking machine, but I don’t like the idea of OTS counter lungs, is that a problem???

    Do you measure CO or CO2 on the RB´S ?
    On the CCR´s do you have the possibility of using them SCR if the electronics fails?

    What to look for??

    best regards

    Anders Knudsen




    Hello Anders, if you go CCR you will first have 2 major choices to make-Electronic SP control-ECCR-or MCCR-Manual/KISS type-and OTS lungs or Back Mounted Counter Lungs-BMCL/BM.

    And yes, all CCRs can be used SCR, just by venting out your mask every 3rd or 4th breath.

    I highly value a low WOB-work of breathing-in all dive positions and having used both OTS and BM, I much prefer OTS counter lungs. Whatever chest clutter you have I think is outweighed by the WOB issue. Others who spend lots of time squeezing through restrictions may not want anything on their chest. A low WOB is also important for deeper diving as you are having to work harder at depth just to move around the denser gas, especially if you wind up working hard at depth. High WOB contributes to a build up of CO2, an especially bad thing at depth.

    As for manual vs. electronic, in normal dive conditions manual is easy enough to dive once you have got the right flow rate dialed in, not much button pushing, except on ascent. But having dived a lot in high current, I prefer an ECCR with a HUD display for SP monitoring when working hard or other times when my attention is divided.

    At first, the more questions you ask, the more questions you'll have, so take your time and make sure you get a good understanding of how the different units differ in their function and design. It may be daunting at first, but you will learn a lot and you will make a better choice the more you know. Good luck and welcome to RBW. -Andy

  6. #6
    New Member fubari will become famous soon enough fubari will become famous soon enough fubari will become famous soon enough fubari will become famous soon enough fubari's Avatar
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    Re: The right tool for the job??

    Welcome aboard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anders Knudsen  View Original Post
    What would be the rebreather of choice if money wasn’t an issue??
    Answer: it depends.
    Ok, ok. :) Let me elaborate a little.

    If I were in the market for a new breather, I would be asking these questions (I'm sure others will have more/better questions to consider as well). In no particular order...
    • What kind of depth range will you be diving?
    • What kind of runtimes (1 hr dives? 3 hr? 6hr? longer? )
    • Will you be task loaded (shooting photos? video?)
    • What sort of environment (open water? wreck penetrations? caves?)
    • Team diving? Solo? (if team, your gear may already be chosen by virtue of what your team is using)
    • Is portability important? (e.g. air transport has size/weight limits)
    • Is tank-shape/size flexibility needed? (will you need to use a variety of cylinder sizes because of travel).
    • If money is no object, what about time? e.g. does it matter when / how far / how long you need to travel for training?
    • Time again: access to replacement parts? servicing? consumables?
    • How reliable do you need it to be (sort of a time question, based on matinenance requirements and downtime from issues).
    Any unit could be used for a wide range of diving goals, but not all goals. Each unit excells for particular goals.

    Here is a rough breakdown:
    shallow portable: sport kiss, maybe evolution, maybe mini-meg.
    mid range depths: kiss-classic, meg, inspiration, optima
    extreme: ouroborus, rb80 seem to be proven in long-duration cave expeditions (I suspect that ouroborus has better availability now than the rb80, which isn't heavilly marketed).

    task-loading: if you're shooting video or photos, it would be a
    good idea to closely review at the various hud-displays on the market (so you always have your po2 in the corner of your eye).

    I would suggest browsing the unit-specific forums and reading what kinds of issues people are fighting with today... problems seem to come and go in waves for all model - no model is yet perfect.

    Keep an eye out for vendor responses, too - is a vendor helpful or ignoring their customers? note: by and large, rebreather divers are an incredibly patient, tolerant and forgiving lot! Spending time offline for maintenance is just normal for the state of the industry.

    John G.

  7. #7

    Re: The right tool for the job??

    Hi Anders

    For each model, there is a unique set of problems / bugs that comes with the unit. That is the unfortunate state of the rebreather at present.
    I would suggest, as you are still very young, to keep on what you are doing in open circuit. DIR works for you, then keep on doing it and build your experience with that. One thing is to have a cert in all sorts of diving environments and equipment, another is being able to use it and maintain that set of skills on a regular basis.
    It all takes time and a lot of money to do it.
    Sorry if that is not the answer you wanted to hear, but owning a breather can be downright frustrating at times. And younger people tend to be less patient; you may be likely to waste a lot of money on something that you will not be able to reap the full benefit of in the timeframe you consider reasonable.
    If it kills your interest in diving, that’s a bummer. But if it kills you, that’s even worse.

    Once you _know_ without a doubt that the extended range of diving is something that you are able to continue doing, despite our situation with weather, shortage of proper boats, the expenses, the cold, limited viz and buddies dropping out of diving. After some years, if you still know that you will keep going on… then the rebreather challenge won’t put you off.

    Cheers
    Johnny

  8. #8
    RBW Member Anders Knudsen is an unknown quantity at this point Anders Knudsen's Avatar
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    Re: The right tool for the job??

    Hey RB world,

    Thanks for you answers – all of them have contributed to a greater knowledge of what to consider when going from OC to RB.

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Christensen  View Original Post
    Hi
    as you are still very young, to keep on what you are doing in open circuit. DIR works for you, then keep on doing it and build your experience with that.
    I am not going RB right now, and not the next couple of years, unless I need it.
    As I said I always want to use the best tool for the job, and at the moment OC is the safest way to do my diving, but I am always open to new input in my diving



    Sorry if that is not the answer you wanted to hear, but owning a breather can be downright frustrating at times. And younger people tend to be less patient


    It was exactly the answer I wanted, someone to calm me down, and make me start thinking about improving my diving skill instead of just buying new shine equipment:D .

    But why did I ask then??
    Well as Johnny said, I dive DIR, not because I belief that it is the only way to dive, but because it works for me, but I wont close my eyes. I want to lean, and that is why I said money is not an option, of cause it is, I am 18 years old, trying to do a little technical diving, I am broke :) .
    But if I wanted a discussion about the best rebreather then you should not be thinking of money.
    I now see that there is no single best rebreather, it differs from where you want to use it in a cave, deep weck or a shallow reef.

    Please keep on posting pros and cons with the different units, I will be reading every word.

    Best regards and good diving

    Anders Knudsen

  9. #9
    RBW Member DannyB. is an unknown quantity at this point DannyB.'s Avatar
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    Re: The right tool for the job??

    Hallo Anders,

    another kind of an SCR is here : ron-ger.de
    it works like PASCR an there is a good support for all your questions in this direction.
    I dive my pascr ( not a RON !) since some years and Iàm verry happy...


    Best regards and have some fun...

    Danny Beiert

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