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Thread: RB80 wanted (not clone)

  1. #1
    RBW Member Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike's Avatar
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    RB80 wanted (not clone)

    Please PM me with price, location and details.
    Thanks

  2. #2
    RBW Member decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie's Avatar
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    Re: RB80 wanted (not clone)

    Oh no!

    Don't tell me you have gone DIR...

  3. #3
    Meg dealer / IT MikeNetto will become famous soon enough MikeNetto will become famous soon enough MikeNetto will become famous soon enough MikeNetto's Avatar
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    Re: RB80 wanted (not clone)

    Hey Mike,

    Take a look at the RB 100 and on my gallery have some pictures on the unit.
    I'm not working more at Protec but If you want more spec's ask mattmexico here on RBW and he will send you the details.
    I can assure you the machine is well done, the designer worked 5 years plus to Dragger and he is working for a sub shipyard in Germany for another 5 years plus.
    I think he was one of the engineers involved on the Panorama Nove FFM.
    Cheers,
    Michael Netto - www.megalodonbrasil.com.br
    ISC Megalodon CCR Dealer and IT
    Sentinel and Cislunar MK6 CCR Instructor
    IANTD and TDI CCR Trimix and CCR Cave Instructor

  4. #4
    Ladies bring a plate Steve has a reputation beyond repute Steve has a reputation beyond repute Steve has a reputation beyond repute Steve has a reputation beyond repute Steve has a reputation beyond repute Steve has a reputation beyond repute Steve has a reputation beyond repute Steve has a reputation beyond repute Steve has a reputation beyond repute Steve has a reputation beyond repute Steve has a reputation beyond repute Steve's Avatar
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    Re: RB80 wanted (not clone)

    Now that you mention it he has been very preachie lately. It was bound to happen.:D
    WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.

  5. #5
    RBW Member decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie's Avatar
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    Re: RB80 wanted (not clone)

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve  View Original Post
    Now that you mention it he has been very preachie lately. It was bound to happen.:D
    Yes, I have noted the last few days of Mike's transformation from a calm, cool and collected mild-manner CCR diver to a screaming, preachy, opinionated, "bafoon"-calling, bone-smuggling, farm animal stupidity Internet diver... Wait a minute!

    I think it is contagious...

  6. #6
    RBW Member Richard Lundgren has a spectacular aura about Richard Lundgren has a spectacular aura about Richard Lundgren has a spectacular aura about Richard Lundgren has a spectacular aura about Richard Lundgren has a spectacular aura about Richard Lundgren's Avatar
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    Re: RB80 wanted (not clone)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    CCR needs a GI3 figure to really lay down a standard set of operational procedures but sadly we don't appear to have the WKPP platform from which this can develop.

    ATB

    Mark Chase
    I think you got what you asked for :)

  7. #7
    RBW Member Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike's Avatar
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    Re: RB80 wanted (not clone)

    Lets just say I have increasingly grown frustrated at my own and at others quite often cowboy approach to tech diving, and that that in turn has made me appreciate the DIR perspective much more. This cowboy attitude seems to be rampant in the ECCR community - you only have to read some of the posts here to see that. Appreciating that doesn't necessarily mean I'm turning DIR.

    I see;

    - people diving bits of electronic (life support) kit that just does not work or work properly - and it doesn't seem to bother them!
    - people not diving with suitable bailout - or even knowing how to determine it
    - people diving ECCRs on dives that can very easily be done with a set of twins with 1/100th of the risk/hassle/cost
    - people diving ECCRs without a damn clue how the sensors (that are keeping them alive) work or fail
    - dangerous self serving advice from some ECCR manufactures
    - people using kit to get around poor planning or poor diving technique, or more kit (ffms) to get around inherent weaknesses in ECCRs
    - people getting crap training
    -people diving dangerous home modified gear (RIP)
    - people having a bad attitude

    I am just as guilty as others in all the above.

    My recent dives have all been on OC. Dives I would have done on ECCR that I can do on OC -I now do on OC. It should be the right tool for the job - not the shiniest tool for the job.

    You only have to look at the recent 100m bail out thread to see where they are coming from with their attitude towards many ECCR divers. I have been looking at the RB80 for a while. I don't know if I will drop ECCR, likely not, But I certainly wish to tighten up my shit by employing more of their protocols. If I can do that whilst using the inherently safer RB80 why not?

    Diving is diving. If i can do the same dives (and I am not sure at this stage if I even can as ECCR makes remote deep cave dives a breeze logistically over an RB80) safer then why not.

    I first talked to JJ about getting and RB80 back in January so this has been on the cards for a while.

    Naturally if I get an RB80 there is no sound reason for me not to dive it DIR

    Its not about free thinking its about a heap of people (who know their sh1t) comming up with protocols that work. In our community we have everyone doing their own stuff often based on internet advice from people that havent got a clue (once again the 100m bail thread is a good example). Trial and error with kit and protocols - everyone is a guniea pig and is taking unecessary risks - IMO.

    I would love it if we (the RB community) could get our sh1t together with a coordinated coherent set of standard diving protocols and set up like the DIR guys benefit from. I believe we must if we are to see less deaths. IMO what makes us more dangerous (and I do believe as a community we are) is NOT the fact we dive ECCR but the attitude towards training, the heath Robinson gear configurations, the 'few times a year holiday divers' using ECCRs and not diving enough to be familiar (and not doing the dives that warrants them) and the often crazy one off protocols with everyone doing different things.


    Well you did ask! :D

    ps. Just imagine what amazing sh1t a cordinated group of ECCR divers could achieve compared to the GUE guys if we were able to get our act together as they have as regards standards and safety (ECCR use asside) we would be kicking some serious ass as regards exploration!
    Last edited by Drmike; 30th August 2006 at 08:16.

  8. #8
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    Re: RB80 wanted (not clone)

    That's why I became an instructor Mike.
    WARNING: I contain occasional coarse language, extreme sexual references, nudity, and adult themes, which may offend some people - Usually churchy types.

  9. #9
    RBW Member decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie has a reputation beyond repute decoweenie's Avatar
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    Re: RB80 wanted (not clone)

    Quote Originally Posted by Drmike  View Original Post
    Well you did ask! :D
    Well... I am almost sorry I asked...

    Some random thoughts popped in mind:
    • DIR has taken how many years to come to this state ?
    Counting back from the day when it started as Hogarthian, IIRC, over 10+ years at least. So time and momentum are important factors.
    • In addition, how many dedicated gear manufacturing companies supported the concept ?
    At least 2 in the beginning, Extreme-Expensive and Halycon. Then once it looks profitable, loads more jumped on-board to share the pie.
    • What is the percentage of "DIR" divers in the global technical diving market ? Out of those, what is the percentage of "true DIR" divers ?
    I am taking guess, it is small on both counts.
    • How much has it truly affected the overall global technical diving market ?
    I guess it will varies depending on who you ask. My guess is little as well. I still see locally GUE-trained guys smoke, DIR-F guys pumped trimix in their twinset and dived to 72m untrained and ran out of deco gas, etc.
    • What is the chance for DIR-CCR concept to work ?
    • What is the projected percentage of people following it ?
    • And how much will it impact the overall scheme ?
    Very unlikely.
    Very small.
    Very little.
    • Should we not try to push the concept then ?
    No, we should.
    If one person dives in safer manner is one less likely to harm himself.
    • What is the DIR-CCR concept and how is it going to work ?
    No idea... :) but start with:
    1. standardized diluent
    2. standardized deco procedures
    3. standardized bail-out procedures
    4. standardized configuration per unit
    but all of those do not overcome the biggest DIR fear of electronic.
    • So what is Mike's chance ?
    Slim to none... ;) but I hope I am wrong.

  10. #10
    All IMVHO obviously... Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field's Avatar
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    Re: RB80 wanted (not clone)

    Hi DrCatMike,

    I kinda understand and agree with alot of what you've said there, although there are just as many beer bellied cowboys playing at DIR as there are ECCR diving IMO, you'll be swapping one bunch of non-conformists for another! :)

    Despite my diving being utterly incomparible to the madness you get up to there one element in your list I have to query...

    Quote Originally Posted by Drmike  View Original Post
    - people diving ECCRs on dives that can very easily be done with a set of twins with 1/100th of the risk/hassle/cost
    This is a stage everyone has to go through and should periodically revisit to check themselves surely?

    DIR divers dive twins and stages shallow to learn the ropes and get familiar with the techniques or when preping for the deep push team... they could do these dives on a single tank but they don't.
    ECCR divers start shallow to learn the ropes and emergancy techniques to join their friends on dives on holiday, to photograph wildlife and where OC is impractical... they could use single tank OC but they don't.
    Recreational divers keep their pony or AAS on for shallow simple dives they could do with "lesser" kit but they don't.

    ARSE is a great diving technique IMO (All the Right Stuff for the Enviroment) but it has its failings, breeding familiarity and skills on your weapon of choice (ECCR) is surely a worthy reason for diving it even when its not needed, are the risks so very much higher or are you offsetting greater risk when it isn't needed for less risk when there is already lots??!!

    Perhaps when we mortals reach the zen like plateau of ECCR diving nivana we will comfortable slip a single 10ltr and BCD on for a 20mtr dive on a reef between epic 200mtr explorations but for now I still find a 20mtr reef dive a challenge- will I be able to control my PPO2 over varying seabed depth? Will I get distracted and not observe my gauges closely enough? Will I be able to kit up in CCR on a small rolling boat close to the reef? Sure I could just chuck some OC gear on but honestly- I need to do this kind of thing on my rebreather so when the sh1t hits the fan on a "real" dive I can just brush it off.

    Just my 2p's worth...

    BEN

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