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Thread: How Narcotic Is Oxygen?

  1. #21
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    Re: How Narcotic Is Oxygen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mdemon  View Original Post
    Sit in a chamber on O2 and see how you feel on the air breaks. If you feel narked during the air breaks then O2 is not as narcotic for you as nitrogen.
    I would be very surprised if anyone felt narcosis from a PPN2 that would be safe to breath in O2. I usually don't feel any effects before about PPN2 of 3.5
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

  2. #22
    New Member Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: How Narcotic Is Oxygen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixaddict  View Original Post
    Simon,

    Is it not conceivable that the "missing nitrogen induced narcotic effect" is replaced by an "oxygen induced narcotic effect" and thereby the overall narcotic effect is approximately the same with both air and Nitrox?

    Regards,
    Randy
    Hi Randy,

    See my first post. What I have written is based on a synthesis of the evidence available to date. It is not my opinion. Trouble is, there is not much, and it comes from obscure (but nevertheless published) sources. There is nothing from contemporary diving studies which is why Dave's work will be interesting. But make no mistake, the weight of currently available evidence favours a greater narcotic effect from nitrogen over the relevant range of PO2 and PN2. What you have said above is a line being sold by some instructors who were no doubt told it by their instructors, and it appears based on little more than a comparison of narcotic potential as predicted by lipid solubility.

    Regards,

    Simon M

  3. #23
    RBW Member leabre is an unknown quantity at this point leabre's Avatar
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    Re: How Narcotic Is Oxygen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve  View Original Post
    Hi Randy, well it is definetly possible but without the sort of trial that DJOT is planning it is just another theory with no basis. Quality info, like the stuff David produces, wil provide valuable answers and I will be waiting eagerly for good science to give me an answer rather than my personal theories. For what it is worth I think that any narcotic properties that oxygen has will be unable to be experienced by divers due to it's toxic properties. I have a hunch that a propper study will conclude that it is pointless to factor it into any dive planning. Just my theory though.;)
    I realize I'm late to this discussion but I'm curious, was this study that is sometimes mentioned in the discussion ever conducted? It's difficult for me to dig through the archives and descern as much.

  4. #24
    "Two Sheds" Janos has a reputation beyond repute Janos has a reputation beyond repute Janos has a reputation beyond repute Janos has a reputation beyond repute Janos has a reputation beyond repute Janos has a reputation beyond repute Janos has a reputation beyond repute Janos has a reputation beyond repute Janos has a reputation beyond repute Janos has a reputation beyond repute Janos has a reputation beyond repute Janos's Avatar
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    Re: How Narcotic Is Oxygen?

    A former boss of mine did a lot of research into this. He concluded it was narcotic. I think it was under Prof Angel at Sheffield.

    Personally I think it's not clear, but I would say it's probably narcotic.

    I like to err on the side of caution so I assume it is.

    Janos

  5. #25
    RBW Member Diving Jayhawk is an unknown quantity at this point Diving Jayhawk's Avatar
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    Re: How Narcotic Is Oxygen?

    O2 is can have a narcotic effect however for the purposes of diving you would have a grand mal seizure before you experienced any noticeable effect. Unfortunately I don't have any links to references with me right now. But from experience as both a hyperbaric life support technician for a commercial dive company (I'm sitting at the panel with 5 divers in saturation as I type this) and as a hyperbaric technician in a hospital I have neither seen or personally experienced any signs or symptoms of O2 narcosis at up to PpO2 of 2.81 ata.

  6. #26
    Randol Williams starfishdiving is an unknown quantity at this point starfishdiving's Avatar
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    Re: How Narcotic Is Oxygen?

    Hi Steve!

    Your Monty Python avatar pretty much sums up the whole O2 narcotic argument pretty well. Have fun!

  7. #27
    Randy Thornton Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict has much to be proud of Mixaddict's Avatar
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    Re: How Narcotic Is Oxygen?

    One of the truly horrible features of a forum like this is the resurfacing of old threads which contain absolutely embarrassing posts that one has made in years gone by! Please ignore my earlier posts in this thread as they were from 5 years ago and obviously prior to my enlightenment!

  8. #28
    Jst anothr Breather Diver Nitrogenius is a splendid one to behold Nitrogenius is a splendid one to behold Nitrogenius is a splendid one to behold Nitrogenius is a splendid one to behold Nitrogenius is a splendid one to behold Nitrogenius is a splendid one to behold Nitrogenius is a splendid one to behold Nitrogenius is a splendid one to behold Nitrogenius is a splendid one to behold Nitrogenius is a splendid one to behold Nitrogenius is a splendid one to behold Nitrogenius's Avatar
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    Re: How Narcotic Is Oxygen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Janos  View Original Post
    A former boss of mine did a lot of research into this. He concluded it was narcotic.
    I think nobody is arguing that O2 might or in fact is narcotic overall..
    My understanding is that any gas is narcotic in some form, the big question is just how much..
    The common method of simply putting O2 "as narcotic" as N2 by simply adding the O2 fraction in the mix to the N2 fraction to decide on the overall narcotic potential of the mix is just completely flawed for several reasons..
    And I think that is why there are so many discussion about it.
    Just from a mathematical standpoint alone it is flawed as depending on the mix the Oxygen would end up having variable absolute narcotic effect depending of the actual fraction of it in the mix..

    Let's stick with air @ 40 m for examle:
    here we have a PN2 of 3,95 bar and a PO2 of 1,05 bar.. That's were we start all our comparisons in mix gas diving..
    giving a rough narcotic ratio of O2 to N2 of 4:1
    Now lets look at a Nx 32 @ 40 m. Here we have 3,4 bar pN2 and 1,6 bar PO2, so all of the sudden the 0,55 bar descrease of PN2 equals 0,55 increase of PO2 so the ration now is 1:1 ?

    Then as pointed out before there is different perception of people diving nitrox vs. air.. Some feel a difference some don't (I do by the way and it is significant for me)..

    Very interesting first point by Dr. Simon.. The actual tissue PO2 explantion rounds my world up to make sense in that chapter.. I am going to discuss that point of view with my favorite dive buddy who is an anaestesist himselve and who was always starting to argue badly about the "crap therories" supporting O2 narcosis.. on the other hand when planning dives he always calculates O2 narcotic for just being on the safe side

  9. #29
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    Re: How Narcotic Is Oxygen?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mixaddict  View Original Post
    One of the truly horrible features of a forum like this is the resurfacing of old threads which contain absolutely embarrassing posts that one has made in years gone by! Please ignore my earlier posts in this thread as they were from 5 years ago and obviously prior to my enlightenment!
    Yeah I know what you mean Randy. Seeing posts I made when I only THOUGHT I knew everything always gives me the willies.
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

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