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Thread: Should 'Hypercapnia Experience' Be Part Of Training?

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    Stefan Besier caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7's Avatar
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    Should 'Hypercapnia Experience' Be Part Of Training?

    Mdemon brought up an intresting subject in another CO2 related thread:
    Purposely having a CO2 hit for experience's sake.

    It is well known that there are signs of CO2 poisening, but everyone responds to it in a different way, probably even on different dives. A high tolearance (or is it low level of CO2?) can just cause a headache and the problem be dealt with. A low tolerance (or high CO2 level) can be absolutely debilitating as several accounts have shown.

    So should a 'hypercapnic experience' be part of the rebreather training?
    What kind of protocol should be in place to make it safe?
    Is the risk worth the knowledge gained?

    Right now I'm at the same spot Mdemon is:
    I'm still in two minds over the validity of doing it "to see what it feels like"...

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    Good question Stefan,

    I picked I am in two minds - principally as i heard that the symptons can vary considerably especially 1 ATA vs multiple ATAs. so you might feel confident that you would know what a hit woudl feel like, don't feel the exact thing on the dive, so don't go open loop, so who knows what!???

    Stuart

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    Came down in the last shower of rain Divechick is on a distinguished road Divechick is on a distinguished road Divechick's Avatar
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    The C02 risks of camping ...

    I am pretty sure I managed to give myself a C02 hit from inside a sleeping bag many years ago ...

    I was doing a walking expedition and camping out and it was damn cold at night, so I had scrunched right down inside the sleeping bag and tightened the drawstring hood thing at the top in an effort to keep warm. Presumably what happened was that the C02 built up inside the sleeping bag. I ended up puffing like a train before I had the sense to put my head back out the top. I didn't realise what it was at the time - assumed I had somehow managed to deplete the oxygen inside the sleeping bag or something - but since being trained on a rebreather I recognise the symptoms of hypercapnia. So beware - those sleeping bags could be lethal!

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    Stefan Besier caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7 has a reputation beyond repute caveseeker7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Divechick
    I am pretty sure I managed to give myself a C02 hit from inside a sleeping bag many years ago ...
    Does that mean you and your sleeping bag will volunteer for my experience?
    Think I just changed my opinion. :D

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    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    Having once experienced a level of discomfort after a series of dives which was probably due to increased CO2 I feel that I would recognize that symptom again should it occur. If there was a way to simulate a mild onset like that for a student without the danger of a serious hit I would say definately yes but I am not sure how you would initiate a 'mild' hit.
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

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    Came down in the last shower of rain Divechick is on a distinguished road Divechick is on a distinguished road Divechick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caveseeker7
    Does that mean you and your sleeping bag will volunteer for my experience?
    Think I just changed my opinion. :D
    Certainly - will be happy to assist by zipping you into a sleeping bag and leaving you there! :D ;)

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    RBW Member Chris Gregory is an unknown quantity at this point Chris Gregory's Avatar
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    Personally I don't think an induced hypercapnia hit is worth the potential danger. In most cases even when you have a student finning against the wall in a pool with an empty scrubber they are waiting and watching for symptoms and even while they are totally focused many simply fin until they passout, for others who do feel the symptoms many get a false sense of security that they can easily handle a Hypercania hit. As any of you know when you do take a hit at depth you may be aware that all is not well but the paranoia and lack of confidence that accompanies it can take extreme effort to go off the loop and switch to a bailout reg (another good reason for a OC/CC DSV) and this is where your skillsets come through.

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    Administrator ROB DAVIE has a spectacular aura about ROB DAVIE has a spectacular aura about ROB DAVIE has a spectacular aura about ROB DAVIE has a spectacular aura about ROB DAVIE has a spectacular aura about ROB DAVIE has a spectacular aura about ROB DAVIE's Avatar
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    Hypercapnic experienc

    I would have to say that I agree with Cris on that score. Especially since hypercapnea symptoms are like those of oxygen toxicity in this sense; they vary from diver to diver, and within each diver from day to day, both in their intensity and manner of onset.

    I don't believe that the "CO2 pool experience" actually produces any worthwhile learning, except for the very real observation that: "Hey, that caca is nasty!!"

    Just my PPO2's worth.

    Cheers!

    Rob

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    Custom Title Allowed! Pierre Farrugia is a glorious beacon of light Pierre Farrugia is a glorious beacon of light Pierre Farrugia is a glorious beacon of light Pierre Farrugia is a glorious beacon of light Pierre Farrugia is a glorious beacon of light Pierre Farrugia is a glorious beacon of light Pierre Farrugia is a glorious beacon of light Pierre Farrugia is a glorious beacon of light Pierre Farrugia is a glorious beacon of light Pierre Farrugia is a glorious beacon of light Pierre Farrugia is a glorious beacon of light Pierre Farrugia's Avatar
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    I too agree that if during the course you handle it and feel it coming can make you believe that next one you will feel it too but who or what garantee you so !

    Quote Originally Posted by TechBlue
    Personally I don't think an induced hypercapnia hit is worth the potential danger. In most cases even when you have a student finning against the wall in a pool with an empty scrubber they are waiting and watching for symptoms and even while they are totally focused many simply fin until they passout, for others who do feel the symptoms many get a false sense of security that they can easily handle a Hypercania hit. As any of you know when you do take a hit at depth you may be aware that all is not well but the paranoia and lack of confidence that accompanies it can take extreme effort to go off the loop and switch to a bailout reg (another good reason for a OC/CC DSV) and this is where your skillsets come through.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROB DAVIE
    I would have to say that I agree with Cris on that score. Especially since hypercapnea symptoms are like those of oxygen toxicity in this sense; they vary from diver to diver, and within each diver from day to day, both in their intensity and manner of onset.

    I don't believe that the "CO2 pool experience" actually produces any worthwhile learning, except for the very real observation that: "Hey, that caca is nasty!!"

    Just my PPO2's worth.

    Cheers!

    Rob
    I'm with you guys on this. The Aussie Navy removed this componend of their training in about 1993 for these very reasons. It was concluded that the set of warning signs the diver learns were rarly the same for each CO2 event and therefore that it was counterproductive to teach it.

    They, like most of us, now work on the theory of "if in doubt, bailout". I'm sure we could explore the best way to bailout at length but Chris pretty much nailed it. Given the way one reacts, I mean, even though they know they should get off the loop and yet they can't, surely an OC/CC DSV and a good buddy are the best help. Well that, or the lightest, fastest, biggest, bestest most expensive rebreather in the world

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