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  1. #21
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    I still feel in my personal experence, that my cave course was more valuable than my wreck course for the following reasons. It covered everything from gas management, team dive planning, buoyancy and trim control, propulsion techniques, light use, basic reel and guidelines use long hose deployment, isolation valve shut-down, manifold drill, gas matching and management, complex navigation to a certain extend, cave geology, survey, etc. Over time and experence and numerous wreck dives I have learned what to apply and what not to apply, but with out that class I would not have had that knowledge to pick and choose from. I was also assuming that the original question was talking about OC. The first time I tried a Rebreather (Buddy) I only had a handful of dives in dbls and was so task loaded and so over whelmed came up in less than 2mins. The second time I tried a rebreather, I had over 200 dives in dbls one or two real hairy experences and some education under my belt. At this time I was totaly relexed and able to absorb and apply everything the instructor was showing me (and I was still nervous). For me personally it took all of my past experence to be comfortable enough to learn ccr diving. That is why I assummed he was talking OC, and even if he was taking CCR I still feel a cave course starting from Cavern and working his way up will be far more beneficial than a wreck course. I think Rob said it best take a cave course and then team up with some of the locals so you can get some tips that will aply to the wreck you are diving. Again Just my 2 cents.

    Martin
    Quote Originally Posted by cedricverdier
    Sorry but as a Cave diving Instructor I don't fully agree with the cave course. It's a good way to improve your techniques as an OC diver but not as a CCR diver.
    You have to understand that some techniques will apply to CCR Wreck diver, some will not.

    For most of the training agencies that propose cave training, the full cave course is based on several sub-courses (like Cavern, Intro to Cave, Cave for instance), each of them having some very specific goal.
    Some of the basic techniques you will learn could be usefull for a Rebreather diver: buoyancy and trim control, propulsion techniques, light use, basic reel and guidelines use.
    But there are also a lot of techniques that are not relevant: long hose deployment, isolation valve shut-down, manifold drill, gas matching and management, complex navigation to a certain extend, etc. Also a lot of information can't be applied in a wreck: cave geology, survey, etc.

    In these courses, you will not learn anything about Rebreather gas management, bail-out techniques, trim with a bail-out cylinder.

    If you have the possibility, an Advanced wreck diver course would be more appropriate, or at least CCR Cave Diver course. Or you have to find a Cave Instructor who is also able to help you to adapt the OC techniques to a rebreather diver...

    Cheers

  2. #22
    New Member Grassy is on a distinguished road Grassy is on a distinguished road Grassy's Avatar
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    Rick,


    You could consider Dave Walton as a local option. He is a qualified Cave instructor and has some pretty amazing experience. He will also be back on an RB in the very short term.

    He is not actively instructing at the moment but would be worth having a chat to. I have certainly learn't heaps just by diving with him.

    Cheers,

    Jeremy

  3. #23
    Classic KISS Pilot Rickoz has a spectacular aura about Rickoz has a spectacular aura about Rickoz has a spectacular aura about Rickoz has a spectacular aura about Rickoz has a spectacular aura about Rickoz has a spectacular aura about Rickoz's Avatar
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    Classic KISS

    Question Course - Wreck - Cave - ?

    And i thought this would be easy,
    now so many options
    Thanks for all your advice guys

  4. #24
    RBW Member Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike has a reputation beyond repute Drmike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cedricverdier
    Sorry but as a Cave diving Instructor I don't fully agree with the cave course. It's a good way to improve your techniques as an OC diver but not as a CCR diver.
    You have to understand that some techniques will apply to CCR Wreck diver, some will not.

    For most of the training agencies that propose cave training, the full cave course is based on several sub-courses (like Cavern, Intro to Cave, Cave for instance), each of them having some very specific goal.
    Some of the basic techniques you will learn could be usefull for a Rebreather diver: buoyancy and trim control, propulsion techniques, light use, basic reel and guidelines use.
    But there are also a lot of techniques that are not relevant: long hose deployment, isolation valve shut-down, manifold drill, gas matching and management, complex navigation to a certain extend, etc. Also a lot of information can't be applied in a wreck: cave geology, survey, etc.

    In these courses, you will not learn anything about Rebreather gas management, bail-out techniques, trim with a bail-out cylinder.

    If you have the possibility, an Advanced wreck diver course would be more appropriate, or at least CCR Cave Diver course. Or you have to find a Cave Instructor who is also able to help you to adapt the OC techniques to a rebreather diver...

    Cheers

    Well said - I fully agree.

  5. #25
    S21 M.I.B. cedricverdier is just really nice cedricverdier is just really nice cedricverdier is just really nice cedricverdier is just really nice cedricverdier is just really nice cedricverdier is just really nice cedricverdier is just really nice cedricverdier is just really nice cedricverdier is just really nice cedricverdier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drmike
    Well said - I fully agree.
    Thank you Mike.

    I just think that a learning process should be as close as possible to the real situation.

    I really like to teach the OC Cave course. It's a great course and everybody has something to learn in this course.
    Nevertheless if you learn OC Cave diving techniques but your goal is Rebreather wreck diving (we are on a Rebreather forum, right?), then your learning process is made more complex:

    1st step: you have to discard all the unnecessary information and skills (cave geology, etc)

    2nd step: you have to adapt the OC techniques to your rebreather (for instance the skill you practise the most during this course should be the S-drill before each dive --> rather than deploying a long hose, you have now to learn how to give your bail-out tank to an OOA diver, a skill that is not taught during the OC Cave course)

    3rd step: you now have to apply the cave-specific skills to a wreck diving situation (for instance, line placement and navigation are different during a wreck penetration. I didn't see a lot of Ts, jumps, circuits or traverses in wrecks. Line traps are much more a concern in a wreck than in caves. Entanglement and line cutting are also a concern)

    If someone is ready to travel to learn with a good instructor, why not making the process simpler and directly go to a CCR wreck Instructor. He will teach all the right techniques that will be directly applied to the right environment. I don't speak about a Basic wreck diving course (like the PADI/NAUI/SSI/SDI/etc specialty courses) but an Advanced Wreck course with extensive penetration. I'm quite sure that there a lot of appropriate instructors for that.

    Cheers

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