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Thread: Ginnie Springs new ccr rule

  1. #11
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    Re: Ginnie Springs new ccr rule

    Quote Originally Posted by AJF  View Original Post
    I don't have a Cave CCR card. Just curious, what does the Cave CCR course offer that Full/Technical cave does not?


    Well handling of unit in zero viz and cave environment comes to mind.
    See saw profiles are not really dealt with in OW CCR tec classes..
    combo with zero vis and line handling
    maintaining PO2 in bad viz etc.
    maintaining (?) PO2 in no viz (Bailout is in my opinion the proper response)
    But with BO in No Viz on the line and potentially with a buddy in touch contact properly responding to the buoyancy aspects of a closed loop in such conditions certainly are a different task load than doing the same in plain OC..
    likely there is plenty more, that is slightly different..


    There is various practical aspects that need to be considererd taking a CCR into a cave I assume that go beyond simple Bailout planning..(which seems to be the only thing mentioned in the context of a OC cave diver taking a CCR into a cave)
    Bailout planning should in fact be a no issue for any technical trained CCR diver, nothing cave specific here other than knowing for you planning one can not ascend for a certain period of time/distance to be covered under BO conditions..
    Here I see an OC Cave diver even in advantage over a cave diver that would have only been trained on CCR as the OC cave diver has much more experience on in Cave SACs under varying conditions..


    I did not have CCR cave course (all my cave stuff was OC), I also think that likely a well trained advanced diver should have the skills and mindset to figure out how to safely dive a CCR in a cave without a course.


    Practicing the above mentioned before entering a cave would be in my opinion one of the things a diligent diver would do, but having CCR certs and Cave certs do not necessarily enforce such, while a CCR Cave course likely is.


    So some cave divers on a CCR in a cave might never have practiced the necessary responses to certain failures that can happen in the combination of CCR diving and cave diving.. Some of them might not even realize that until such rare event would strike and then it might be too late..
    So there might be upsides to such class that are not that obvious..


    You don't know what you don't know comes to mind..


    Given all the above asking for a requirement of a CCR cave card does not seem to be that "odd".. especially from an owners perspective that might encounter liabilities with your diving..

  2. #12
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    Re: Ginnie Springs new ccr rule

    Quote Originally Posted by barney  View Original Post
    The cave ccr is a new rule...as of October 1, 2017. They tried implementing this years ago, but Rose Meadows set them straight and it did not become a rule (aside from the "week or so, on and off again, depending who you signed in with" type of rule).
    Got it... I guess I have been there a time or two around the "On Again" days... ;) Never effected me but I know some that were hiding from it...

  3. #13
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    Re: Ginnie Springs new ccr rule

    Gee, I guess i'm in the si..s as I don't even have an OW CCR for my home built unit and yet have over 200 hrs CCR cave! I just don't seem to ever fit the mold.

  4. #14
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    Re: Ginnie Springs new ccr rule

    I have a card printer.... problem solved.

  5. #15
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    Re: Ginnie Springs new ccr rule

    I guess this is just Ginnie protecting itself from liability. The diving certification industry keeps coming up with new certifications to get divers to pay for even more instruction, so I'd guess some liability lawyer told Ginnie that they should require those new certs. When I was trimix certified, there was only one level - now there are 5 different open water and 2 different CCR trimix levels with IANTD. They started "requiring" CCR specific trimix certification on various boats and sites long after I received my CCR and open water Trimix certs. My cave diving and trimix certifications go back to around 2001 and I received my first CCR card in 2004 (KISS), long before anyone heard of CCR specific cave diving certs. So the CCR specific cave training came up sometime in the past decade - I'm not sure exactly when, but this is the first I've heard of it being required at a cave site in Florida. I would bet we will see more of this splitting of hairs in regards to c-cards in the future. So I have over 500 cave dives, most of them on CCR, many in far more challenging systems than Ginnie and I can't dive Ginnie anymore? What a world we live in!

  6. #16
    RBW Member AJF is an unknown quantity at this point AJF's Avatar
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    Re: Ginnie Springs new ccr rule

    Thanks for the in depth info on the CCR specific certs. Good to know.

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