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Thread: Neutral 80s as bailouts?

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    RBW Member Cdiver1 is an unknown quantity at this point Cdiver1's Avatar
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    Neutral 80s as bailouts?

    I've been offered a trade of two neutral aluminum 80s for an AR15 upper I don't use anymore. Anyone have any experience using these as bailouts specifically diving dry in caves? Am I wrong in thinking these should sit better than regular aluminum 80s?


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    Latvian Baron Baron015 is an unknown quantity at this point Baron015's Avatar
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    Neutral 80s as bailouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cdiver1  View Original Post
    I've been offered a trade of two neutral aluminum 80s for an AR15 upper I don't use anymore. Anyone have any experience using these as bailouts specifically diving dry in caves? Am I wrong in thinking these should sit better than regular aluminum 80s?


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    Doesn't it depend what you put in them ?
    My Al80 with 100% O2 hangs heavily like a dead pig.
    My Al80 with Tmx 8/77 is somewhere above my head.
    And various in between.

    Or re-reading, did you mean just when humping them around above the water ? I met someone with two Carbon 10L 300bar cylinders, they were amazingly light!!

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    Last edited by Baron015; 12th January 2017 at 18:02.

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    RBW Member rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack's Avatar
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    Re: Neutral 80s as bailouts?

    Neutral 80s hang basically like steel 80s. So for cave use I'd say they are fine, just a bit small IMO.

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    RBW Member Cdiver1 is an unknown quantity at this point Cdiver1's Avatar
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    Re: Neutral 80s as bailouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baron015  View Original Post
    Doesn't it depend what you put in them ?
    My Al80 with 100% O2 hangs heavily like a dead pig.
    My Al80 with Tmx 8/77 is somewhere above my head.
    And various in between.

    Or re-reading, did you mean just when humping them around above the water ? I met someone with two Carbon 10L 300bar cylinders, they were amazingly light!!

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    They're the same weight and size as a normal al80 but are designed to be neutrally buoyant at empty. Helium does help float a tank quite a bit but I was planning on using 32/00 in them for caves in the peacock depth range. I read somewhere that theyre extremely negative full so maybe a light mix (32/15?) would help keep them slightly more buoyant?


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    RBW Member tbone1004 is an unknown quantity at this point tbone1004's Avatar
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    Re: Neutral 80s as bailouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cdiver1  View Original Post
    They're the same weight and size as a normal al80 but are designed to be neutrally buoyant at empty. Helium does help float a tank quite a bit but I was planning on using 32/00 in them for caves in the peacock depth range. I read somewhere that theyre extremely negative full so maybe a light mix (32/15?) would help keep them slightly more buoyant?


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    helium only brings them closer to their empty buoyancy characteristics, it doesn't make them float any more. I.e. 30/30 at 3000psi will "hang" like EAN32, Air, or O2 at 2000psi. 10/70 will hang like Nitrox/Air/O2 at 1000psi, but it can't make the tank float any more than it would when empty.

    I guess for me it would be how much is the AR15 upper worth, and worth to you? If less than $150, it's worth the trade because you can flip them later if you don't like them. If more than $200? I wouldn't make the trade.

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    RBW Member Cdiver1 is an unknown quantity at this point Cdiver1's Avatar
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    Re: Neutral 80s as bailouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by tbone1004  View Original Post
    helium only brings them closer to their empty buoyancy characteristics, it doesn't make them float any more. I.e. 30/30 at 3000psi will "hang" like EAN32, Air, or O2 at 2000psi. 10/70 will hang like Nitrox/Air/O2 at 1000psi, but it can't make the tank float any more than it would when empty.

    I guess for me it would be how much is the AR15 upper worth, and worth to you? If less than $150, it's worth the trade because you can flip them later if you don't like them. If more than $200? I wouldn't make the trade.
    It's an el cheapo upper that I have no use for anymore. I'll probably go ahead and trade him, even if I don't like using them for bailout I can find something to do with them. Anyone ever actually used these as bailout tanks? Feel free to chime in so I know what I'm getting myself into.


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    Re: Neutral 80s as bailouts?

    as stated above, the N80's hang just like a steel tank and are really negative. I prefer the Luxfer AL80's, and hang a 2pdr on the ass end of rich and lean gases, to keep the ass end from floating up.

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    Re: Neutral 80s as bailouts?

    I use Luxfor AL80s for nitrox and Faber lightweight steel 10s

    With 250bar nitrox in the AL80 and 250bar 18/45 in the steel 10 they balance out within a few lbs. Empty the AL80 will float but seeing as the steel 10 empty is neutral the floaty single 80is not to bad

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    RBW Member rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack's Avatar
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    Re: Neutral 80s as bailouts?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cdiver1  View Original Post
    They're the same weight and size as a normal al80 but are designed to be neutrally buoyant at empty. Helium does help float a tank quite a bit but I was planning on using 32/00 in them for caves in the peacock depth range. I read somewhere that theyre extremely negative full so maybe a light mix (32/15?) would help keep them slightly more buoyant?


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    They aren't that big, so full of 32% isn't really that heavy for Peacock, mainline Ginnie, little river etc type dives IMO.

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    Re: Neutral 80s as bailouts?

    We use AL 80s all the time for B/O tanks.
    21/30 does help with the trim when full (230Bar) when you SM, but if you have to use them they become very + with HE.

    Our team has now switched to light weight steel B/O tanks. I like them, but it still early :)

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