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Thread: CCR buoyancy control questions

  1. #1
    RBW Member phasechange is an unknown quantity at this point phasechange's Avatar
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    CCR buoyancy control questions

    Hello all, I have almost convinced myself to upgrade to a CCR but the concern about buoyancy control is holding me back.

    I currently dive in a drysuit on wrecks from depths of 20ft to 180ft (deeper in future- hence the CCR) and I would dive the unit as much as possible regardless of dive profile to gain experience. Need to have good buoyancy control at all depths.

    I have read a lot about some hints and tricks to help with control
    Being correctly weighted and NOT over-weighted. – doesn’t bail out gas automatically make you overweight by some amount?
    manage gas volumes in the wing, drysuit and rebreather loop, maintain just enough gas in the loop for a full breath and no more.

    I am hoping to get some feedback on how precise of control can be achieved with depth changes? For CCR I mostly see videos or discussions on maintaining a constant depth. With OC I love gliding inches above the bottom, moving up and down in the wreck as obstacles or path demand. Is this type of control realistic with a CCR? Is it constant adding to and dumping from the wing?

    The second thing I see in most videos is the vertical position during ascent or changes in deco stops. Is this due to dumping out the FMCL or finning to move up in the water column ?

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    Fake Diver Jeff Pack will become famous soon enough Jeff Pack will become famous soon enough Jeff Pack will become famous soon enough Jeff Pack will become famous soon enough Jeff Pack's Avatar
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    Re: CCR buoyancy control questions

    by definition with 2 80's for bailout, you are 8pds overweighted to account for all gas. Add in a pair of 19's, a bit more.

    For CCR, I have to adjust buoyancy about every 3-5 feet if I'm trying to stay neutral.

    I never ascend vertical, always horizontal. Distributes water pressure across your body more evenly for buoyancy

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    RBW Member Gl1tchie is an unknown quantity at this point Gl1tchie's Avatar
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    Re: CCR buoyancy control questions

    Hi Phasechange,

    I am a very new JJ CCR diver. Less than 50hrs. Previous to CCR I had been diving open circuit for about 15 years. I became very comfortable with buoyancy on open circuit like most divers I guess. I had no trouble maintaining a hover and making small adjustments mostly with my lungs as you probably do now. I was able to anticipate when I would need to add or dump air in my wing and was always prepared for movements before they needed to happen.

    I can tell you on my first CCR dive I was a train wreck. I was on the bottom, then floating to the surface, then diving to the bottom again, then floating up again etc... I think I used half a dil bottle just adding and dumping air like a mad man. It was the worst experience I've had underwater in quite some time! I felt like a COMPETE idiot. By my third and fourth dive I had kind of calmed the crazy a bit, I learned that really small adjustments work best but I was still constantly trying to make small corrections with my lungs which does nothing. Ascending is a fun one, with wing/loop volume changes and PO2 changes and the breather doing what it does, it can be a lot to think about on your first dive.

    But like anything, with practice you get better. I now consider myself slighter better than useless at controlling my buoyancy. I have slowly suppressed the habbit of taking a deep breath to hover over an upcoming outcrop or coral. Or breathing all the way out to duck under an overhang or in to a wreck door way. I'm definitely a long way off the level I was at with OC but I believe with more hours will come more control. I am certain the level of control you are looking for is achievable. I have seen it. You can see it on YouTube. You just have to be prepared to feel like a complete novice for a few hundred hours.

    Hope this helps.
    Dan

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    RBW Member rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack's Avatar
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    Re: CCR buoyancy control questions

    Quote Originally Posted by phasechange  View Original Post
    I am hoping to get some feedback on how precise of control can be achieved with depth changes? For CCR I mostly see videos or discussions on maintaining a constant depth. With OC I love gliding inches above the bottom, moving up and down in the wreck as obstacles or path demand. Is this type of control realistic with a CCR? Is it constant adding to and dumping from the wing?

    The second thing I see in most videos is the vertical position during ascent or changes in deco stops. Is this due to dumping out the FMCL or finning to move up in the water column ?

    How much up and over the wreck you can do will depend on the depth of the wreck and the amount of ups and down you plan on doing. If the wreck is deep or the ups & downs small its no big deal - especially if you are swimming as you need not be perfectly neutral if you have some forward motion.


    You have to swim up between deco stops, not just inhale. But you don't have to stay vertical.


    IMHO the best thing you can do to perfect your CCR buoyancy is to continue to dive with great OC divers. Think of it as a good challenge to match their buoyancy and eventually you'll get pretty close.
    Last edited by rjack; 31st October 2016 at 16:49.

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    RBW Member Vanny is an unknown quantity at this point Vanny's Avatar
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    Re: CCR buoyancy control questions

    Wouldn't worry you'll soon get used to it. If your OC buoyancy is good it'll help as you'll know the feeling. To be honest on the very odd occasion I've gone back to OC I find the whole up down breathy thing most annoying.

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    Fake Diver Jeff Pack will become famous soon enough Jeff Pack will become famous soon enough Jeff Pack will become famous soon enough Jeff Pack will become famous soon enough Jeff Pack's Avatar
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    Re: CCR buoyancy control questions

    I still occassionally adjust my buoyancy with counterlungs to slightly ascend or descend.

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    RBW Member doctormike is an unknown quantity at this point doctormike's Avatar
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    Re: CCR buoyancy control questions

    I'm an even newer JJ divers (13 hours after training), but I really do feel that once you get the buoyancy figured out, it's even better than on OC.

    Since you aren't changing buoyancy with each breath, you can lock yourself in neutrally buoyant at a given depth and just stay there, even on a long swim. On the other hand, ascents and descents do require more bubble management and dil usage, so we tend to minimize them and swim around things rather than over them. A different type of diving, to be sure.

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    RBW Member Steverin06 is an unknown quantity at this point Steverin06's Avatar
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    Re: CCR buoyancy control questions

    My experience matches docmike. The majority of my dives have been with only OC partners, reef diving (ie potentially a lot of repeated descending/ascending). What I have learned to do is when we approach reefs, I'll have my OC partners swim over the big reefs, while I swim around(as ocmike mentioned).

    If the OC'ers find something worth my dil, I'll ascend using my BC for bouyouncy and blow out as little of the oxygenated loop as possible - to the point where I'll accept super chipmunk cheeks. Once I'm done at that level I'll forcefully swim back down to compress my loop - with the objective being minimize the loss of my loop volume on the short ascent up, so that I need to add as little dil as possible (and subsequent O2) when I return back to the level I want to be at.

  9. #9
    RBW Member techintime is an unknown quantity at this point techintime's Avatar
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    Re: CCR buoyancy control questions

    Buoyancy control: Some have issues for a few dives...some get it right away...everyone gets it eventually.

    Trim: If you see CCR divers out of trim...then they probably dove that way OC as well. It's the diver...Not related to the machine.

    Also, as you become more in tune with diving your machine, you will find that a buoyancy change becomes part of the feedback that alerts you that something unexpected may be happening. i.e. stop and figure it out.

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