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Thread: Thoughts on Freedom (Liberty) vs Shearwater (JJ/Revo/etc)

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    RBW Member jale is on a distinguished road jale is on a distinguished road jale's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Freedom (Liberty) vs Shearwater (JJ/Revo/etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by paca_mike  View Original Post
    NLP stands for Neuro-Linguistic Programming
    The Map is Not the Territory. As human beings, we can never know reality. We can only know our perceptions of reality. We experience and respond to the world around us primarily through our sensory representational systems. It is our 'neuro-linguistic' maps of reality that determine how we behave and that give those behaviors meaning, not reality itself. It is generally not reality that limits us or empowers us, but rather our map of reality.

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    Well all these about NLP is an opinion not a scientific "reality" ...il me semble :) :)

  2. #12
    RBW Member paca_mike is an unknown quantity at this point paca_mike's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Freedom (Liberty) vs Shearwater (JJ/Revo/etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by jale  View Original Post
    Well all these about NLP is an opinion not a scientific "reality" ...il me semble :) :)
    Exact comme son commentaire 😉

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    RBW Member Hk101gr is on a distinguished road Hk101gr is on a distinguished road Hk101gr's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Freedom (Liberty) vs Shearwater (JJ/Revo/etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Field  View Original Post
    Fear of killing yourself, getting bent or making a tit of yourself in front of your peers should be sufficient impetuous to assemble and dive your CCR (or OC) correctly.

    Have seen too many divers Needing a physical check-list to get in the water (some of them safely...) it also breeds complacency- they begin to stop checking things not on the list.

    Common sense, quality basic training, good design and a safety mindset are what is required- check-lists breed by-the-numbers divers (generally speaking, there are always exceptions)


    (There is no legal requirement to having training as such it can never be cited a cause to do anything- the sooner agencies learn this the better, but that's a separate rant
    Common sense, better quality training, the best designs at the time and an entire safety culture hasn't prevented pilots from making idiot mistakes, checklists did.

    The main problem is that people confuse the checklist with a read-and-do list. There is a huge difference.

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    All IMVHO obviously... Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Freedom (Liberty) vs Shearwater (JJ/Revo/etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hk101gr  View Original Post
    Common sense, better quality training, the best designs at the time and an entire safety culture hasn't prevented pilots from making idiot mistakes, checklists did.

    The main problem is that people confuse the checklist with a read-and-do list. There is a huge difference.
    Rebreathers are not aeroplanes- analogy rejected.

    The simplest aircraft include systems far more complex than the most complex recreational rebreather, you cannot compare wind turbines and nuclear power stations for the same reason.

    If you make something simple and good it becomes unnecessary to describe it- no one has check lists for snorkels but they can kill you faster than a rebreather...


    FWIW- I have no issue with people using check lists to remind them the order of things if they are forgetful or do things infrequently, my issue is with purposefully making something that is simple more complex in the name of safety such that they have to provide a check list because its Too complex for the intended user to use... that is as stupid as it sounds.

  5. #15
    RBW Member Hk101gr is on a distinguished road Hk101gr is on a distinguished road Hk101gr's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Freedom (Liberty) vs Shearwater (JJ/Revo/etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Field  View Original Post
    Rebreathers are not aeroplanes- analogy rejected.

    The simplest aircraft include systems far more complex than the most complex recreational rebreather, you cannot compare wind turbines and nuclear power stations for the same reason.

    If you make something simple and good it becomes unnecessary to describe it- no one has check lists for snorkels but they can kill you faster than a rebreather...


    FWIW- I have no issue with people using check lists to remind them the order of things if they are forgetful or do things infrequently, my issue is with purposefully making something that is simple more complex in the name of safety such that they have to provide a check list because its Too complex for the intended user to use... that is as stupid as it sounds.
    We agree here but you are wrong about the analogy, most complex systems in aeroplanes have simple ways to interact with crew given their complexity.Take landing gears for instance, loads more people have forgotten to flip a switch and have landed planes wheels up, than having experienced a system failure, all because they forgot that final checklist....

    What i meant was having poor training standards and bad designs and having people rely on a list to put their rebreather together and make sure it is divable is tragic. Having a checklist in the end to make sure everything is ok after you put everything together is very acceptable but having to read the put together instructions every time is unacceptable,some checklists go so far as to ask you to analyse your gas... wtf? seriously?
    Last edited by Hk101gr; 29th September 2016 at 16:40.

  6. #16
    RBW Member rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack's Avatar
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    Re: Thoughts on Freedom (Liberty) vs Shearwater (JJ/Revo/etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hk101gr  View Original Post
    some checklists go so far as to ask you to analyse your gas... wtf? seriously?

    People still die from not analyzing their gas, although not usually because they forgot, they decide they don't need to.


    "Analyze O2, dil, and BO" is on my personal checklist. I don't usually need a reminder but it does no harm and helps remind me to double check my computer that its set for the same gases.

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