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Thread: New comparative research on sodalime preparations

  1. #11
    RBW Member manni-yunk is an unknown quantity at this point manni-yunk's Avatar
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    Re: New comparative research on sodalime preparations

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon Mitchell  View Original Post
    Hello,

    Our spherasorb vs sofnolime paper published this month in Diving and Hyperbaric Medicine can now be accessed via the following link:

    http://www.dhmjournal.com/index.php/...lease-articles

    This matter has been debated a number of times over the years. As you will see there are grounds for being cautious about the relative performance of sorb preparations.

    This is the second in our series of studies on CO2 matters in rebreathers (the first was the study to determine whether a 5 minute prebreathe can reliably detect incomplete scrubbing of CO2 from a rebreather circuit published last year).

    Data collection is complete or nearly so in other studies addressing: how to store a partially used CO2 scrubber ("unprotected on the shelf" vs sealed in an airtight bag); extendair cartridges vs granular sorb; and how accurately temp sticks predict CO2 breakthrough. At least some of these data will be presented at Eurotek and published in due course.

    Simon M

    Thank You very much for posting! Great read. I do understand your reasoning for choosing these 2 products. First - we must prove that what we "think we know" is in fact true before we start to move into other areas.

    That being said, I do have a few questions:

    1)what would the total cost for a study like this cost? I ask because Ill bet we can get enough donations to complete the other sorb research that everyone is requesting.

    2) Are there any "political" reasons that would inhibit a direct comparison between Sofnalime 797 and intersorb 812?

  2. #12
    New Member Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: New comparative research on sodalime preparations

    Quote Originally Posted by michael-fisch  View Original Post
    Who is impressed with the amount of effort that you put into proving that apples taste different than oranges, or that a rock that is thrown up into the air will come down.

    It was not that much effort given that that experimental set up was created primarily for the other studies I mentioned which will all be published over the next year.


    You are entitled to your nihilistic view about this work Michael, but the existence of data (the only comparative data available) contradicting your views prior to our study, and the frequent-enough advocacy for use of spherasorb in rebreathers amongst our diving colleagues effectively proves you wrong about the lack of practical value.


    Simon M

  3. #13
    New Member Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: New comparative research on sodalime preparations

    Quote Originally Posted by 4ster  View Original Post
    Thanks to Shearwater Research for providing the grant funding.

    Yes, fantastic isn't it!? They supported this work (including the other yet to be released studies I mentioned) which effectively has nothing to do with their product line. They are solely motivated by increasing knowledge and safety out there in the rebreather community. A truly class act.


    Simon M

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    Re: New comparative research on sodalime preparations

    Thanks for the link, Simon. Great work!

    Doug

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    Re: New comparative research on sodalime preparations

    Quote Originally Posted by manni-yunk  View Original Post
    Thank You very much for posting! Great read. I do understand your reasoning for choosing these 2 products. First - we must prove that what we "think we know" is in fact true before we start to move into other areas.

    That being said, I do have a few questions:

    1)what would the total cost for a study like this cost?
    I don't know what it cost, but this was buried in the foot notes on the last page: "This work was supported by a research grant from Shearwater Research, Vancouver, Canada."

    Two class acts working together to produce meaningful data.

  6. #16
    New Member Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell has a reputation beyond repute Simon Mitchell's Avatar
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    Re: New comparative research on sodalime preparations

    Quote Originally Posted by manni-yunk  View Original Post
    1)what would the total cost for a study like this cost? I ask because Ill bet we can get enough donations to complete the other sorb research that everyone is requesting.

    Hello,


    It is hard to quantify this. We have formed a collaboration with the Sports and Exercise Science team at our university, and they had all the equipment in their lab. If we had to buy all of that up front it would have been prohibitively expensive. Similarly, if we had to buy the rebreathers it would have been expensive. But AP diving, Diverite (Optima), and REVO (well, actually it is Lynn Partridge's personal unit) have all loaned us rebreathers for the various experiments we are doing. Now that we are up and running it is quite cheap to run these experiments. We just need the materials and technician wages.

    Quote Originally Posted by manni-yunk  View Original Post
    2) Are there any "political" reasons that would inhibit a direct comparison between Sofnalime 797 and intersorb 812?

    None at all. The Intersurgical people have been very cooperative and understanding about this. It is something we could do easily and indeed, probably will given the interest in it here. One of the references in the paper is to a datasheet which reports the results of such a comparison. I recall they were fairly similar.


    Simon M

  7. #17
    RBW Member exposure is an unknown quantity at this point exposure's Avatar
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    Re: New comparative research on sodalime preparations

    Thanks Simon for sharing this work. It is very interesting.

    Yvan

  8. #18
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    Re: New comparative research on sodalime preparations

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor P  View Original Post
    Simon, thanks for posting. Great work done.

    But at the end I need to agree with Michael Fisch.

    I would prefer a study comparing Intersorb 812 vs sofnolime 797.
    Sure I understand your reasons for the kind of study you made and do not underestimate.

    igor P
    Poslano z mojega SM-J500FN z uporabo Tapatalk
    Igor, this is a study we have done years ago, and the result is that in warm water, nice diving environments, both perform almost the same, in cold water, there is a slight difference, where sofno 797 does a bit better
    best
    paul


    ps: Simon, thanks for the good work! this way we can prove people should stop believing 'myths'
    www.rEvo-rebreathers.com
    ...."Yes you have to pre-breathe to activate the scrubber sorb, anyone who says different doesn't know what they are talking about!"...
    .... to get more accurate CO2 injection in the breathing machine we put 2 mass flow controllers in series ...
    .... The noise is a few tens of nano-volts, so DL were able to reduce the output voltage ...
    .... radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
    .... the earth is flat and ...

  9. #19
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    Re: New comparative research on sodalime preparations

    Paul,

    thank you for the info posted. Do you have any written data of the study?
    The results you mention are similar to what I tought. But sure it is nice to know study does confirm what one tought.

    Best regards,

    Igor P

    Poslano z mojega SM-J500FN z uporabo Tapatalk

  10. #20
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    rEvo

    Re: New comparative research on sodalime preparations

    Quote Originally Posted by Igor P  View Original Post
    Paul,

    thank you for the info posted. Do you have any written data of the study?
    The results you mention are similar to what I tought. But sure it is nice to know study does confirm what one tought.

    Best regards,

    Igor P

    Poslano z mojega SM-J500FN z uporabo Tapatalk
    the written result of this study is that we recommend (for rEvo), in cold water, to cycle one canister after 1h45 minutes, when using intersorb, and after 2h for sofno 797
    paul
    www.rEvo-rebreathers.com
    ...."Yes you have to pre-breathe to activate the scrubber sorb, anyone who says different doesn't know what they are talking about!"...
    .... to get more accurate CO2 injection in the breathing machine we put 2 mass flow controllers in series ...
    .... The noise is a few tens of nano-volts, so DL were able to reduce the output voltage ...
    .... radial scrubbers give longer dwell time than axials...
    .... the earth is flat and ...

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