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Thread: Hypercapnia detection training?

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    Thinker n Tinkerer Sparedone is an unknown quantity at this point Sparedone's Avatar
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    Hypercapnia detection training?

    Two sides of a coin:

    Formal elevated co2 recognition training can be effective as referenced in the old study:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12751583

    As a former freediver I had trained to suppress the natural responses to elevated co2. It's an idea I've experienced similar to how the forum member 'Edvin M' recounted it:

    "My theory is that due to all the freediving training I did(pool 5 times a week + lots of dry walking apnea) my body thought it was "OK" with high CO2 values and as I also trained myself alot to ignore the urge to breathe I sometimes found that I had this "urgue to breathe" but as I was so used to ignoring it I did that during the dive without thinking about it."

    Anyone with a freediving background want to share their 'untraining' methods?

    Or in general:

    As a rebreather diver do you have any ongoing training sessions to increase your sensitivities to elevated co2 levels?

    Regards from a ccr hopeful,
    Cameron

    I'll reference the study where almost a 1/4 of subjects didn't detect an absent scubber during prebreathing as well.
    http://www.researchgate.net/profile/...ee0833bfd5.pdf
    Last edited by Sparedone; 21st April 2016 at 23:17. Reason: Added link

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    Muddiver Muddiver is an unknown quantity at this point Muddiver's Avatar
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    Re: Hypercapnia detection training?

    The instructor I trained with does a drill with the scrubber removed from the unit to create a CO2 rich breathing gas. This is done in the shallow end of the pool under direct supervision, no open water dive. Anyway it helps a new CCR diver feel, sense and experience their personal reactions and symptoms of hyper apnea. Because most CCR units don't come with CO2 sensors, I think this is a valuable drill.

    Now, let the guppy bashing began.

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    RBW Member EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD's Avatar
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    Re: Hypercapnia detection training?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddiver  View Original Post
    The instructor I trained with does a drill with the scrubber removed from the unit to create a CO2 rich breathing gas. This is done in the shallow end of the pool under direct supervision, no open water dive. Anyway it helps a new CCR diver feel, sense and experience their personal reactions and symptoms of hyper apnea. Because most CCR units don't come with CO2 sensors, I think this is a valuable drill.

    Now, let the guppy bashing began.
    I don't believe you will detect it. On a pool KNOWING there's Noa scrubber is different to a dive at 70 m and not knowing your scrubber is compromised

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    Muddiver Muddiver is an unknown quantity at this point Muddiver's Avatar
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    Re: Hypercapnia detection training?

    See, guppy bashing


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    Re: Hypercapnia detection training?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddiver  View Original Post
    See, guppy bashing


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    Muddiver Muddiver is an unknown quantity at this point Muddiver's Avatar
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    Re: Hypercapnia detection training?

    I dove my unit with an old scrubber cartridge recently in the pool after a major repair to see if it was working correctly. I felt as if I couldn't get enough breath after twenty minutes, I wanted to surface and I think I started to get tunnel vision. So I guess your right, one can't detect high CO2 levels while diving shallow.


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    RBW Member EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD's Avatar
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    Re: Hypercapnia detection training?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muddiver  View Original Post
    I dove my unit with an old scrubber cartridge recently in the pool after a major repair to see if it was working correctly. I felt as if I couldn't get enough breath after twenty minutes, I wanted to surface and I think I started to get tunnel vision. So I guess your right, one can't detect high CO2 levels while diving shallow.


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    Just for the record: I don't claim to be right, ...it's only my opinion as a newbie and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. ;)

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    Re: Hypercapnia detection training?

    Quote Originally Posted by EngelenD  View Original Post
    Just for the record: I don't claim to be right, ...it's only my opinion as a newbie and my opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it. ;)
    You might not be able to detect c02 but from my experience your breathing rate increases and thus oxygen consumption increases in co2 rich situations, very noticeable for me on an mccr

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    RBW Member EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD is a jewel in the rough EngelenD's Avatar
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    Re: Hypercapnia detection training?

    Quote Originally Posted by deepunderground  View Original Post
    You might not be able to detect c02 but from my experience your breathing rate increases and thus oxygen consumption increases in co2 rich situations, very noticeable for me on an mccr
    So more O2 consumption = more CO2 production

    I believe you can notice it but my guess is it's just a matter of seconds.

    I have to say : no experience of wich I'm sure. Thought I had it once and bailed out , it also could have been anxiety but I didn't took the risk, noticed my breathing rate going up too much and went for my BO and ended the dive Afterward I think it just was anxiety ( early Ccr days)
    Another time I also felt the breathing going up, some more work, swimming more. Had done a few bo exercises and opened the dsv a few times too much too let air out when I was on OC. The scrubber was soaked ;)

    I just don't trust myself to be able to detect it. Better sure then sorrow ?

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    Re: Hypercapnia detection training?

    This can be a very dangerous thing for a CCR diver. It is usually the experienced diver that is in greater danger due to the fact that they will tend to stay on the loop to sort out the issues. Hypercapnia can come on slow or quick and it can sneak up on you when task loaded. If you notice your breathing rate to be increased, there better be a good reason for it such as working hard etc., it not then there is your first warning and it might be your last depending on how you react. if you wait too long you can begin breathing so hard and fast that you will not ventilate effectively and the spiral gets worse and worse. you will not be able to hold your breathe long enough to ditch the DSV and put a OC reg in your gob. At this point you may as well just kiss your arse goodbye. I have been extremely close myself and ended up sucking a bit of water but manged to bail out. I am very conscience of my breathing rate now.
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