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Thread: Diving in France with a non ce RB

  1. #21
    RBW Member ntokyo is an unknown quantity at this point ntokyo's Avatar
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    Re: Diving in France with a non ce RB

    Quote Originally Posted by wwjk  View Original Post
    I've been this summer at the region (Hyeres) with my CE-certified CCR, no problems.
    But the french law (btw: This law exists only in France, not in the rest of Europe) is quite clear: You need CMAS Level3+the license for you CE-rebreather, then you're welcome.

    Non-CE=no diving with a center.

    Nobody asks for modifying, BOVs or whatever...
    The CMAS Level 3 is not compulsory by law. And equivalent can be fine.
    In practice, exotic certification, or certifications unknown by the shop are rejected....

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    Re: Diving in France with a non ce RB

    Hi,
    Please ntokyo, can you point precisely in the document where the CE certification is specified, because I've just read the whole document and i dont see anything like that.

    I am diving in France a rEvo3 (CE) but i have converted it in M25 oxygen side because i do travel, so i'm not CE anymore i guess, but nobody has ever cared about that.

    My insurance is DAN so i dont think it matters.

  3. #23
    Stéphane Acounis Stephane is a name known to all Stephane is a name known to all Stephane is a name known to all Stephane is a name known to all Stephane is a name known to all Stephane is a name known to all Stephane is a name known to all Stephane is a name known to all Stephane is a name known to all Stephane is a name known to all Stephane is a name known to all Stephane's Avatar
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    Re: Diving in France with a non ce RB

    Quote Originally Posted by Madmark555  View Original Post
    Hi,
    Please ntokyo, can you point precisely in the document where the CE certification is specified, because I've just read the whole document and i dont see anything like that.

    I am diving in France a rEvo3 (CE) but i have converted it in M25 oxygen side because i do travel, so i'm not CE anymore i guess, but nobody has ever cared about that.

    My insurance is DAN so i dont think it matters.
    Here:
    «
    Art. A. 322-94. − Lorsque la plongée est réalisée avec des recycleurs, ceux-ci font l’objet d’une
    certification selon les normes en vigueur.
    Which can be roughly translated in english by «when diving a rebreather this one must comply to an (actual) existing certification» and in France this means CE certification.

    I agree this is complete nonsense as a Japanese or an American can bring and drive his car in France but he can not bring his rebreather...

  4. #24
    RBW Member Madmark555 is an unknown quantity at this point Madmark555's Avatar
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    Re: Diving in France with a non ce RB

    Yep, my mistake.

    What's difficult to understand in France is the dual system we have, french federation and commercial diving entities.
    There will be differences in what you can do with the two systems.
    For example, french federation only certifies on AP and Submatix; so, many "federal" structures will not accept other rebreathers.
    A commercial rebreather-friendly shop will take many others if you can prove you're properly certified.

    What I missed (i was not concerned with my unit) is that CE certification is not part of these differences, it applies to everyone, commercial and non-commercial.

  5. #25
    RBW Member josepherely is an unknown quantity at this point josepherely's Avatar
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    Re: Diving in France with a non ce RB

    With a dive club commercial or non commercial you will not find someone who will let you dive with a non CE rebreather with its mark/sticker (even though those mods you made mean it is no longer in the original CE configuration). It gets even more complicated if you want to use a He mix as then other regulations come in for dive supervisors etc, (ie the person "in charge" normally most qualified person) and whether or not they are qualified etc. Even regulated as to the qualifications of the person diving, although there are abilities to have divers "recognized" by dive operators as "equivalent".

    The marine gendarmerie are very strict about the application of these regulations, and if ever there is a accident, particularly if fatal, there is non compliance, even if non contributory then the sanctions are very heavy. Think HSE inspectors in the UK carrying guns and lots of aggressive attitude and you are going down the right road.

    The owner of the dive outfit risks having their lively hood taken away so even where you have good friends etc. - very difficult. diving OC on mixes is difficult due to depth / certification requirements (your "recognized" certification and of the dive supervisor)

    Take your own boat and dive yourself or get a CE marked RB, even Nothing in the law to stop you diving yourself off your own boat in a non CE unit


    From the UK you get some south coast charter boats coming to French waters and diving with RB groups or mixed gases. The boat owners/skippers and the "dive supervisors" are often ignorant of the French law and the consequences for them (impounding their boat, heavy fines or worse). The Skippers fail to realize that they could be considered the equivalent of the dive club under French law, rather than a "taxi"

    Its the law, so doesn't matter how illogical. One example is that if you are controlled by the Marine Gendarmes then they would expect to see aspirin in your first aid kit.... one of those outmoded things, documentation has to be complete, marking of tanks, records of control of mixes, certification (remember to French standards) medicals (not self certifications), the list is long. In addition don't forget the new standards coming into effect for CO2 levels in mixed gases - i.e. virtually no CO2, they will analysis the gases as well if an accident. Try doing that for a recreational dive charter group.... how that is going to pan out in France for the dive clubs - who knows.

    BSAC/SAA could something to help with this to get mutual across the board recognition of UK qualifications for UK based divers based on CMAS equivalence, however they have to work with the FFESSM who are the delegated body in France who grants this. FFESSM are very open to this, have done so for other European diving federations. but this would be limited to the "dive supervisor" and relevant diver qualifications issue. Nothing will help with the CE / non CE issue.


    Let us know if you ever ended up diving there and how you managed.

    Best of luck

    Joe

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    RBW Member dspe is an unknown quantity at this point dspe's Avatar
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    Re: Diving in France with a non ce RB

    Well i did not go on the trip ,but phoned the group, the AP units were exepted though the y wanted to dive tx normoxic which of corse they are certified,well they could not unless there was an instructeur with the same qualification in the water with them.l will meet them at the goul du pont on friday no one has ever stopped me to check ce going into a cave thank God.

  7. #27
    RBW Member josepherely is an unknown quantity at this point josepherely's Avatar
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    Re: Diving in France with a non ce RB

    Quote Originally Posted by dspe  View Original Post
    Well i did not go on the trip ,but phoned the group, the AP units were exepted though the y wanted to dive tx normoxic which of corse they are certified,well they could not unless there was an instructeur with the same qualification in the water with them.l will meet them at the goul du pont on friday no one has ever stopped me to check ce going into a cave thank God.
    Yes what I would have expected about being allowed to dive with a tx mix, this is what I was referring to above about the dive supervisor. the dive club has to have a qualified instructor/ supervisor on hand who has the relevant qualifications. Looks like they also did not give "equivalence" to the qualifications of the visiting divers, hence would then require an "instructor" in the water with them, so that it would in effect count as a "training dive". Vive la France.

    In the cave diving it is not a recognized "dive structure" boat/club/association etc. just a group of mates diving together... then you do what you like to a large degree...

  8. #28
    RBW Member josepherely is an unknown quantity at this point josepherely's Avatar
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    Re: Diving in France with a non ce RB

    In fact you are fine for speleo, the rules don't apply for speleo diving (see below in French)

    Art. A. 322-71. Les dispositions de la présente section s’appliquent aux établissements mentionnés à




    l’article L. 322-2 qui organisent la pratique de la plongée subaquatique.

    « Elles ne sont pas applicables à la plongée archéologique, à la plongée souterraine ainsi qu’aux parcours

    balisés d’entraînement et de compétition d’orientation subaquatique.



  9. #29
    RBW Member dspe is an unknown quantity at this point dspe's Avatar
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    Re: Diving in France with a non ce RB

    Then i dont understand why french do diving certificates if you have to dive with some one or even an instructeur Jacque Custeau would be turning in his grave😔.
    The French have got it all back to front open water 45 m you need an instructeur ,dark cold nasty cave go on in and take your granny and your kids for a try dive no worrys youll be all right ?😎

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