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Thread: Ideal set for sports/recreational diving. 25 meters

  1. #81
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal set for sports/recreational diving. 25 meters

    You can buy a Hybrid MCCR with ECCR controler or you can di what I did and put a needle valve on your ECCR and make your own hybrid.

    I run my ECCR JJ at 0.7 set point and do the dive on MCCR setting of 1.3 using a needel valve.

    ATB

    Mark

  2. #82

    Re: Ideal set for sports/recreational diving. 25 meters

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    You can buy a Hybrid MCCR with ECCR controler or you can di what I did and put a needle valve on your ECCR and make your own hybrid.

    I run my ECCR JJ at 0.7 set point and do the dive on MCCR setting of 1.3 using a needel valve.

    ATB

    Mark
    Do you get this parachute capability with an auto override from a solenoid cutting in?

    Yeh yeh.. sorry mark.. That's what you just said. (I run my ECCR JJ at 0.7 set point and do the dive on MCCR setting of 1.3 using a needel valve.)

    Clever stuff.
    Last edited by paulanthony; 15th June 2015 at 13:21.

  3. #83
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal set for sports/recreational diving. 25 meters

    Quote Originally Posted by paulanthony  View Original Post
    Do you get this parachute capability with an auto override from a solenoid cutting in?

    Yeh yeh.. sorry mark.. That's what you just said. (I run my ECCR JJ at 0.7 set point and do the dive on MCCR setting of 1.3 using a needel valve.)

    Clever stuff.

    If the solinoid cuts in I have really screwed up :D


    A needle valve is diferent from a CMF (Constant Mass Flow oraface) With CMF you set the IP presure and it feeds X ltr's per min 02 into the unit and you set this just below metabolic so you have to inject once or twice on the bottom phase

    With a needle valve you use a standard depth compensated IP and adjust the nedle valve as you dive in order to give you a prety constant PP02

    Asuming theres no monster depth changes on a normal + or - 2.l5m wreck (one where max to min depth is 5m ish I never have to inject 02 on the bottom phase once the valve is set

    + side is no injection but because you know its manual you still keep a very close eye on PP02

    Aside from setting up on the boat I can do a whole dive without the solonoid fireing once.

    ATB

    Mark

  4. #84
    RBW Member rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal set for sports/recreational diving. 25 meters

    Quote Originally Posted by paulanthony  View Original Post
    Do you get this parachute capability with an auto override from a solenoid cutting in?

    Yeh yeh.. sorry mark.. That's what you just said. (I run my ECCR JJ at 0.7 set point and do the dive on MCCR setting of 1.3 using a needel valve.)

    Clever stuff.
    There are plenty of hybrid proponents but just as many (if not more) people who say why bother.

    Get a mCCR if you prefer than, or get a eCCR and run it manually with the solenoid as a parachute (yes you have to add O2 fairly often) and/or let the solenoid do what its designed to do depending on the dive.

    A hybrid can be thought of as the "best" of both m and eCCR. But it can also be the "worst" of both.

  5. #85

    Re: Ideal set for sports/recreational diving. 25 meters

    A lot of different philosophy. I found another today called iCCR. Intelligent? I can't discern the acronym but if the i stands for intelligent then is that more intelligent than eCCR or has Apple released a CCR?

    Anyway, I have learnt a lot and you chaps have helped me get to grips with much of the jargon and helped me navigate my round CCR basics so thanks a lot for that.

    I have read many of the threads on here with a fascinated boys own interest but alas only felt qualified to talk about ear pressure and safety philosophy so need to progress my internet learning to a real life one and then I can come back here and talk about needle valves and flow orifices with you guys.

    I can't raise my BSAC quali from the ashes so planning to do a compacted padi course or similar on holiday so I can get to the ccr option a bit quicker. We will see, but thanks again chaps.

    P.S : Still can't decide between mCCR, eCCR and full fat eCCR but on my list is the..

    Kiss, JJ, APvision, Hollis Prism II and the Poseidon VII still has my eye.

    Basically, which ever one I read about last is the one I want but I keep coming back to the afore mentioned so must mean something I guess.
    Last edited by paulanthony; 16th June 2015 at 23:24.

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    RBW Member rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal set for sports/recreational diving. 25 meters

    I believe only the APOC is calling itself intelligent. LOTS of spirited debate about that unit, its development, and developers.

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    Re: Ideal set for sports/recreational diving. 25 meters

    Quote Originally Posted by paulanthony  View Original Post
    I found another today called iCCR. Intelligent? I can't discern the acronym but if the i stands for intelligent then is that more intelligent than eCCR or has Apple released a CCR?
    You just opened up a whole new can of worms.
    Ken

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsix36  View Original Post
    Just remember that listening to an idiot such as myself may very well get your arse dead.

  8. #88
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Re: Ideal set for sports/recreational diving. 25 meters

    The ICCR Apoc doesen't exist in the real world (I think theres a comercial version but i have never seen one)

    I have dived the standard MCCR Apoc which is sold as a pure 02 rebreather (Max depth 6m) and can be modified to MCCR and dived on trimix if you like.

    Great little unit but I wouldn't sugest it for a first time CCR user as its part home build

    ATB

    Mark

  9. #89
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    Re: Ideal set for sports/recreational diving. 25 meters

    Mark,
    The Apocalypse is now available complete from the factory as an mCCR (but with an AV1 computer). No home building required.
    AFAIK the iCCR part has not yet been delivered to any customer.

    To the OP, the Apocalypse in it's currently available form operates in exactly the same manner as a KISS.
    The list of people who can currently train you on one is very short.
    An ECCR and a mCCR should take exactly the same amount of monitoring from the diver, the difference is that a mCCR requires you to push the O2 add button occasionally. i have both an eCCR and a mCCR and on the type of shallow diving with frequent depth changes you describe, I find the mCCR an easier machine to use.(this is because I can decide if I want to keep the PO2 at 1.3 and manage all the extra gas, or I'm prepared to let the PO2 drop a little and not have to manage the extra gas/buoyancy)

    Simon A

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    The ICCR Apoc doesen't exist in the real world (I think theres a comercial version but i have never seen one)

    I have dived the standard MCCR Apoc which is sold as a pure 02 rebreather (Max depth 6m) and can be modified to MCCR and dived on trimix if you like.

    Great little unit but I wouldn't sugest it for a first time CCR user as its part home build

    ATB

    Mark

  10. #90

    Re: Ideal set for sports/recreational diving. 25 meters

    The i (ccr) stands for intervention it seems. It is something I think would be an ideal set for a recreational diver if it can ever do what it says on the can.. However, quite an interesting journey this tech has taken everybody on.

    Having read quite a lot with respect to this story I think the problem sits with the initial expectations given for delivery and price point. To be honest I am not surprised it has taken nearly a decade to bring this device to market and maybe the pioneers of this tech were initially naīve to imply it would happen earlier. The r&d involved in critical system development is just off the wall with both time and money implication and I have no doubt frustration and impatience sits heavily with the founders as well.

    I have a sneaky feeling that the current development of this i-ccr will be partitioned off for the purpose of UK R&D accounting which I think supports up to 200% as a tax deductible now meaning you don’t have to be in profit to get your investment back. This is something they would not have had at the beginning of their journey which maybe why they chose to start taking deposits before. However, whilst under R&D accounting rules the product can not be commercialised in anyway less it loses it’s R&D qualification.

    The cost implications of bringing this to market always implied that the price point would have to be high value / low volume. I would suggest the implication of low price points happened because the development road ahead was not fully appreciated.

    Production and quality control is another can of worms and will probably require other collaborating/holding companies coming into the fray if it is ever to be a “volume” item. MRP is not an easy thing to do. The project still has a way to go yet I think.

    The time scales thus far are correct and would only be slightly reduced even if there had been a billionaire backer because only one person can make an omelette. The fault has always been one of naive time scale expectation and setting but if you are not familiar with real world (concept to market) time frames, especially when the subject matter has a life critical label it will be an easy mistake to make. I have example of many things that have even taken longer. The time frame is normal for tech with this level of complexity involved.

    It seems some have either lost or are concerned about deposits. Let’s hope these can be resolved at some point in the future and then if we do see this tech on the market we can gives these pioneers of technology a well earned pat on the back because what they are trying to do is so very very hard to achieve. Inventive mind and business mind never fit in the beginning.

    I wish them every success and also hope all get satisfaction with respect to any deposits paid but reset your time expectations because I doubt they are ahead of the curve just yet.
    Last edited by paulanthony; 20th June 2015 at 13:33.

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