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Thread: First CCR indecision

  1. #1
    RBW Member deepblue83 is an unknown quantity at this point deepblue83's Avatar
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    First CCR indecision

    Hi, I am considering transition from OC to CCR . Thinking about my first rebreather and it is quite hard decision
    My needs:
    1) Diving 3-6 dives per month to 40-70m, but I would like to have an option to dive 100+ with the unit
    2) Diving mostly in warm seas
    3) Able to use for recreation and tech diving
    4) Simple to operate, reliable, "working horse" machine
    5) I am buying machine for a long time, with option to "growth" with it
    6) Easy service, even by myself
    7) Light weight for travelling
    8) Possible minimized costs on purchase and maintenance (I am considering to buy 2nd hand)

    After reading about different CCRs I narrowed on 3 units that can fit my needs - MEG,Pelagian and rEvo.
    I have tried to analyze and write down pros and cons for each one.

    MEG (APEX or COPIS)

    Pros – 1)solid build, 2) reliable, 3) modular, 4) popular in my area, 5) large 2nd hand market. 6) many available accessories, 7) possibility to upgrade the unit in the future.
    Cons – 1) heavy for travelling, 2) looks little bit over-engineered.

    Pelagian DCCCR

    Pros –1) simple, 2) extremely light for travelling (10.5 kg), 3) streamlined, 4) simple maintenance, 5) can be used with any type of tanks.
    Cons –1) not mass-produced and popular as MEG and rEVO, 2) nobody locally carrying spare parts, 3) few years ago relatively low price for this machine was a huge con (for a new unit), today the basic price with 2 cells, tanks, wing and etc. ~8500$ and with the BOV,HUD and shearwater computer is the same as buying a new MEG or rEVO (~11000$).

    rEVo III hybride

    Pros –1) simple, 2) light for travelling, 3) low profile, 4) simple maintenance, 5) double scrabber system, 6) may be controlled manually and electronically (hybrid).
    Cons – 1) problem to connect any kind of cylinders (when travelling), 2) low flooding recovery, 3) many (up to 5) O2 cells to replace annually (costs).

    First I am not 100% inclined to mCCR or eCCR, I think both can work for me. I know that all of them TOP rebreathers, it is like comparing Mercedes and BMW, and it is usually comes to personal preference. But still I really would like to hear your opinions, especially from those who had 2 (or all) of them and switched for some reason.
    I will appreciate any advice or thinking out loud.
    Last edited by deepblue83; 28th April 2015 at 14:26.

  2. #2
    RBW Member tkfx2000 is an unknown quantity at this point tkfx2000's Avatar
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    Re: First CCR indecision

    If there is any way you can try out different systems, I would recommend that.
    First and foremost, get training on any system. Rent the unit during your course. Once you have basic training, you can move between rebreathers a bit more easily. You will also practically see what you like and dislike about a specific designs.

    I would suggest buying a used system. Have it serviced and take a course on that system. Save the bulk of your money for the your next rebreather. That is the one you will likely keep for years.

    Also, consider what others dive in your area. If you are the only one in your area on a unit, it makes it a bit more difficult to get real world advice.

    If this were a car, you probably would not be saying "I'd like to buy a new car, then I will learn how to drive!"
    Really best to learn to drive first, practice on an old car until you are comfortable, then buy the shiny new one.

  3. #3
    RBW Member aaen will become famous soon enough aaen will become famous soon enough aaen will become famous soon enough aaen will become famous soon enough aaen's Avatar
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    Copis MEG

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    First CCR indecision

    Sound advice there. I went through three Rebreathers before I found one I will stick with!!

    Went revo, Meg and finally JJ. All good units, well built, the first two just didn't suit me/feel right to me. Then I met my Jacky (JJ) and it was like everything just fell into place. Love at first sight perhaps? I went into it unknown and first dive I had a big grin on my face. Maybe it was I was in the UK learning or t was something knew but I knew then it was the one. That sounds a bit corny.

    Anyways, I would have loved to been able to try all the rebreathers before I bought, sadly I didn't have that option. Regardless it was a learning experience and to be honest I probably would have changed anyways. What I mean is that as I progressed into doing deeper dives and more hours on the units, I realized what i thought I liked and didn't wasn't the same as what I had originally thought. Most guys I know have switched once or twice with their rebreather units.

    Regardless do your research and try to test them out or at least get your hands on them to see how they are built/fit/etc. make the best informed decision you can then make the decision and go with it. Have fun and reevaluate after a year or so and see if your still happy with it.

    Have fun as the learning phase and trying them out/etc was fun for me. But then again I'm a bit of closet dork and like to research everything.

    Regards


    Regards

    Steve

    I suffer from fat finger syndrome and a tiny keyboard on an iPhone. So I apologize for the typos and misspellings.
    Last edited by aaen; 29th April 2015 at 03:17.

  4. #4
    RBW Member andrespp is on a distinguished road andrespp is on a distinguished road andrespp's Avatar
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    Re: First CCR indecision

    Quote Originally Posted by deepblue83  View Original Post
    Hi, I am considering transition from OC to CCR . Thinking about my first rebreather and it is quite hard decision
    My needs:
    1) Diving 3-6 dives per month to 40-70m, but I would like to have an option to dive 100+ with the unit
    2) Diving mostly in warm seas
    3) Able to use for recreation and tech diving
    4) Simple to operate, reliable, "working horse" machine
    5) I am buying machine for a long time, with option to "growth" with it
    6) Easy service, even by myself
    7) Light weight for travelling
    8) Possible minimized costs on purchase and maintenance (I am considering to buy 2nd hand)

    I would consider a Classic Kiss with some improvements (Golem BOV, hardwired Shearwater).

  5. #5
    Photographer & Journalist John Liddiard has a spectacular aura about John Liddiard has a spectacular aura about John Liddiard has a spectacular aura about John Liddiard has a spectacular aura about John Liddiard has a spectacular aura about John Liddiard's Avatar
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    rEvo II Mini Hybrid

    Re: First CCR indecision

    Considering your location, I would think a key factor in deciding would be availability of support and parts. You don't want to have the unit stuck on the shelf for XX months while waiting for spares to get to you.

  6. #6
    RBW Member Nicool is on a distinguished road Nicool is on a distinguished road Nicool's Avatar
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    rEvo III micro FT RMS

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    Re: First CCR indecision

    Quote Originally Posted by deepblue83  View Original Post
    Hi, I am considering transition from OC to CCR . Thinking about my first rebreather and it is quite hard decision
    My needs:
    1)Diving 3-6 dives per month to 40-70m, but I would like to have an option to dive 100+ with the unit
    2)Diving mostly in warm seas
    3)Able to use for recreation and tech diving
    4)Simple to operate, reliable, "working horse" machine
    5) I am buying machine for a long time, with option to "growth" with it
    6) Easy service, even by myself
    7) Light weight for travelling
    8) Possible minimized costs on purchase and maintenance (I am considering to buy 2nd hand)

    After reading about different CCRs I narrowed on 3 units that can fit my needs - MEG,Pelagian and rEvo.
    I have tried to analyze and write down pros and cons for each one.

    MEG (APEX or COPIS)

    Pros – 1)solid build, 2) reliable, 3) modular, 4) popular in my area, 5) large 2nd hand market. 6) many available accessories, 7) possibility to upgrade the unit in the future.
    Cons – 1) heavy for travelling, 2) looks little bit over-engineered.

    Pelagian DCCCR

    Pros –1) simple, 2) extremely light for travelling (10.5 kg), 3) streamlined, 4) simple maintenance, 5) can be used with any type of tanks.
    Cons –1) not mass-produced and popular as MEG and rEVO, 2) nobody locally carrying spare parts, 3) few years ago relatively low price for this machine was a huge con (for a new unit), today the basic price with 2 cells, tanks, wing and etc. ~8500$ and with the BOV,HUD and shearwater computer is the same as buying a new MEG or rEVO (~11000$).

    rEVo III hybride

    Pros –1) simple, 2) light for travelling, 3) low profile, 4) simple maintenance, 5) double scrabber system, 6) may be controlled manually and electronically (hybrid).
    Cons – 1) problem to connect any kind of cylinders (when travelling), 2) low flooding recovery, 3) many (up to 5) O2 cells to replace annually (costs).

    First I am not 100% inclined to mCCR or eCCR, I think both can work for me. I know that all of them TOP rebreathers, it is like comparing Mercedes and BMW, and it is usually comes to personal preference. But still I really would like to hear your opinions, especially from those who had 2 (or all) of them and switched for some reason.
    I will appreciate any advice or thinking out loud.
    Hi there!

    Like others said, your first unit may not be your last one, so starting with a used unit would indeed be wise, as you would loose less on the reselling, in case you do resell..

    Sharing my own switching experience: i started with a rEvo, dove it for 20 months, then moved to a Poseidon, dove it for nearly 2 years, and then... back to a rEvo, since 8 months (different model than the first one), and i now feel i have the perfect unit for me

    Let's not forget that getting at ease in the water with a rebreather takes some time (i mean, as opposed to your OC experience). I did enjoy my Poseidon time for that purpose: not much to do while you dive as unit is fully automated, so i could really concentrate on learning buoyancy and everything. Plus the counterlungs placements of the Poseidon make it easy to breathe in all positions.

    When i got at ease after some diving with the Poseidon (e.g. as comfortable as in OC for underwater photography), then i started thinking about this unit's limitations/issues (every unit have some), and i concluded i would be much happier back on the rEvo (more a "working horse" type of unit), considering that the things that made me move from my previous rEvo wouldn't apply anymore:
    -too heavy for shore diving walks: i took a micro model, tiranium version - very weight efficient
    -stress when bailing out (no BOV as opposed to Poseidon): not a problem anymore > being more comfortable with rebreathers, having to leave the loop, and reach for the bailout's 2nd stage wasn't a stress anymore (it was when i started rebreather diving).
    -> could also have added a 3rd party BOV, but BOVs tend to leak...

    Not sure how much it would help you, but this was my path. I guess the main point is: your needs will evolve after you have few dozens hours on a unit, then you'll see if it's still the right one.

    Cheers
    Nicolas

    P.S: have a read at the "understanding oxygen sensors" paper on revo website (applicable to any unit), you'll see that you normally won't chAnge more than 2 cells per year.

  7. #7
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    JJ Hybrid

    Inspo, Hammer Head, KISS rEvo

    Re: First CCR indecision

    As above considering your location I would seriously consider only two units.

    KISS and rEvo

    Of the two the KISS is MUCH easier to travel with and the rEvo is the more flexable unit. Trust me a rEvo is NOT a lightweight unit unless your getting a titanium Micro

    Both can be easily field repaired to a diveable condition with a hammer and a screwdriver

    The revos 3ltr tank restriction is not an issue thease days. If the place caters for CCR they will have 3ltr tanks


    The KISS needs Shearwater HUD & Golum Bov

    The KISS would prefer a hard wired Sheerwater display

    The rEvo needs a Golum BOV

    The rEvo would prefer a Shearwater HUD

    BOTH need a stand



    If you realy want to go ECCR only then a JJ is a great tool and very reliable but remember if it breaks you are screwed for diveing less you willing to dive HUD only


    I have owned and dived the KISS rEvo Hybrid and JJ


    Pelegan i know very little about and would like to see WOB test data before I risked it on a V deep dive. Meg I just dont like for several personal reasions which others disagree with


    ATB

    Mark

  8. #8
    RBW Member paca_mike is an unknown quantity at this point paca_mike's Avatar
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    Meg

    Re: First CCR indecision

    Have a look to the CCR liberty......

  9. #9
    RBW Member deepblue83 is an unknown quantity at this point deepblue83's Avatar
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    Re: First CCR indecision

    [
    If you realy want to go ECCR only then a JJ is a great tool and very reliable but remember if it breaks you are screwed for diveing less you willing to dive HUD only
    ATB

    Mark[/QUOTE]

    Mark, what does it mean?

  10. #10
    Dive Aqaba Owner Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson is a glorious beacon of light Rod Abbotson's Avatar
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    Re: First CCR indecision

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Chase  View Original Post
    Pelagian I know very little about and would like to see WOB test data before I risked it on a V deep dive.
    ATB
    Mark
    PelagianSwedishNavyTest.jpg

    WOB and scrubber now tested to CE standards but as it is a manual unit cannot meet complete CE standard as that requires electronic O2 injection etc.

    I have personally used my Pelagian (#14) many times to over 100m with no issues since 2008 with a max of 167m in 2011...did a 120m last year but then they banned all CCR in my country of residence..I now have my unit stored in the UK and pass by to take it on trips and run courses elsewhere, below in Arizona. Very useful and good for travelling..especially the versatility of the tanks....

    The BOV is a Scubapro 600 as is the ADV so easy to service if you can service a regulator...

    If that is a problem I would suggest a KISS as I have recommended to others to start with a manual unit (my personal preference, especially for deeper dives).

    cheers
    Rod
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