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Thread: h versus e CCR

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    RBW Member TomMaddalena is an unknown quantity at this point TomMaddalena's Avatar
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    h versus e CCR

    Why would you choose an eCCR over an hCCR.
    I'm aware that the orifice implies depth limits but it seems to me most people don't do most of their dives below 80 meters ? And if you plan a deeper dive you can simply plug it up and thats it then no ?
    So why aren't all eCCR's hCCR's ?

  2. #2
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
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    Re: h versus e CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by TomMaddalena  View Original Post
    Why would you choose an eCCR over an hCCR.
    I'm aware that the orifice implies depth limits but it seems to me most people don't do most of their dives below 80 meters ? And if you plan a deeper dive you can simply plug it up and thats it then no ?
    So why aren't all eCCR's hCCR's ?
    What shortcomings of eCCR does the H address?
    The MCCR has the advantages simplicity and lower cost at the expense of depth limitation. The eCCR has complexity, and greater cost. The hCCR shares the disadvantages of both systems without any benefit that I can see.
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

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    RBW Member PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG is a glorious beacon of light PeterVICEG's Avatar
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    Meg

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    Re: h versus e CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post
    What shortcomings of eCCR does the H address?
    The MCCR has the advantages simplicity and lower cost at the expense of depth limitation. The eCCR has complexity, and greater cost. The hCCR shares the disadvantages of both systems without any benefit that I can see.
    I am with Dave on this one.

    Curt Bowen has a good piece on here about how in "only" seven min one will go fro a set point of .7 to death with no orfice or O2 injection. The problem, aside from seven min being a long time to ignore your PO2, and .7 is a low set point, is that the orfice does nothing for you except if you are keeping the same depth in the water column. Go up, it won't help you.

    For what it is worth I did about 150 hrs on my unit as a MCCR and then a similar amount of time after I changed it to be a ECCR. Glad of the MCCR experience, happy to now dive it as an ECCR.

    Each to his own...

    Peter

  4. #4
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    Re: h versus e CCR

    After years of diving eCCR and itching for a hybrid, I got my chance. And I quickly learned that I don't like having a leaky valve. I'm sure most of my issues were because I was so used to eCCR without the orifice. You can't breathe down a high pO2 easily, you have to flush. If you go off the loop for even a short time, your loop pO2 will rise, requiring a dil flush or shutting down the O2 tank valve. I kept forgetting to shut the valve during bailout drills, and it screws up buoyancy. And if you surface you have to shut the valve, then remember to open it again before submerging.

    These are just some of the things that mCCR and hCCR divers take for granted and do automatically. But they were a PITA for me and had some disadvantages. I'm fine with eCCR and diligent enough to monitor my pO2.


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  5. #5
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    Re: h versus e CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by TomMaddalena  View Original Post
    Why would you choose an eCCR over an hCCR.
    I'm aware that the orifice implies depth limits but it seems to me most people don't do most of their dives below 80 meters ? And if you plan a deeper dive you can simply plug it up and thats it then no ?
    So why aren't all eCCR's hCCR's ?

    the nice thing is that you can do whatever you want: if you don't like h, than you just switch it off
    best guess is that 90% of the rEvo divers dive the unit in hybrid mode: it safes battery power, a bit more stable, less influence on buoyency, (??) (surely during deco), and it's more fail-safe than pure eCCR
    Last edited by paulraymaekers; 9th March 2015 at 11:10. Reason: typo
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  6. #6
    RBW Member dreamdive has disabled reputation dreamdive's Avatar
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    Re: h versus e CCR

    Quote Originally Posted by paulraymaekers  View Original Post
    the nice thing is that you can do whatever you want: if you don't like h, than you just switch it off
    best guess is that 90% of the rEvo divers dive the unit in hybrid mode: it safes battery power, a bit more stable, less influence on buoyency, (??) (surely during deco), and it's more fail-safe than pure eCCR
    I am totally with Paul. I dive 6 different CCR's and only one of them is a hybrid (rEvo). It is a feature I miss when diving the other 5.

  7. #7
    RBW Member SlowDiver will become famous soon enough SlowDiver will become famous soon enough SlowDiver will become famous soon enough SlowDiver's Avatar
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    Re: h versus e CCR

    If you are concerned about the orifice defining your depth there is a way to set it up where you do not need to run a separate off board 02. Just put a H valve on the 02, one first stage feeds the orifice and have the other first stage feed the solenoid. Has worked fine for me the last six years.


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  8. #8
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
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    Re: h versus e CCR

    My logic was totaly diferent

    I baught a HCCR because I wanted a unit I could still dive broken

    So if the ECCR side packed up id just dive it MCCR

    In this respect the rEvo is in a class of its own as I could evenm remove the ECCR side compleetly if i wanted to and do it in the field or on the live-aboard.


    I went back to a ECCR (JJ) and I soon found myself getting complacent so now i run it on a needle valve on low set point. Its a bit like a HCCR but if my wrist unit fails on the JJ I only have the HUD left, which is less than optimal


    Mt KISS Mccr was running 11 bar on the standard oraface so was theoreticly depth limited to 100m (In realiaty I could dive it deeper if I wanted too)

    I like the simplicity of MCCR and I am going back to it. ECCR does nothing for me except make me complacent. HCCR is nice but the only unit I have seen it realy works properly on is the rEvo

    Because i want the option of putting my unit in an overhead locker on a aircraft and I dont want to dive a rEvo Micro to acheive that goal I wont bother going back but it is a damed fine unit in terms of redundancy options.

    On the KISS I just carry a compleet spare kidney & triple display when traveling.

    ATB

    Mark

  9. #9
    ccr apprentice Philippe GERIN is a glorious beacon of light Philippe GERIN is a glorious beacon of light Philippe GERIN is a glorious beacon of light Philippe GERIN is a glorious beacon of light Philippe GERIN is a glorious beacon of light Philippe GERIN is a glorious beacon of light Philippe GERIN is a glorious beacon of light Philippe GERIN is a glorious beacon of light Philippe GERIN is a glorious beacon of light Philippe GERIN is a glorious beacon of light Philippe GERIN is a glorious beacon of light Philippe GERIN's Avatar
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    Re: h versus e CCR

    Hccr is as complicated as you make it: I have a Hccr Meg with ATS BMCLs. It’s a set up similar to Mark’s JJ, except I use a Kiss valve instead of a needle valve. How’s that complicated? I just removed the on/off O2 MAV and replaced it with a Kiss valve.
    In reality, I dive it as a Mccr because that’s where I come from, and I also dive a Classic Kiss and the O2 management is totally idendical: MAV is in the same location, O2 flow is the same, O2 tank valve management is the same.... The E part is just a parachute. If it goes south during a trip, I simply don’t turn it on and can still dive. Not that it happened to me on the Meg. That thing is like a swiss watch: always ticking.

  10. #10
    RBW Member rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack will become famous soon enough rjack's Avatar
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    Meg

    Re: h versus e CCR

    I chose an eCCR because I looked at the potential to screw up turning the O2 on and off between dives, between sumps in a cave, between coming on/off the loop, etc and decided that was a potentially risky added complexity for me. This was also because there had been an least one diver who failed to turn on his O2 and died of hypoxia incident recently as well.

    From my OC days, I am conditioned to track depth and time pretty religiously. So I knew I'd want a shearwater with this info in one place on my wrist. Until I had that, I felt like I was counting HUD flashes and checking my controller a bit more than I wanted. Now that I have depth, time, ppO2 and deco status all on the right wrist I'm very happy and it all flows quite smoothly. I also like being able to breath down the loop ppO2 a little (a benefit I didn't think about until MOD1) and let the solenoid run my O2 during scootering ascents/deco up slope.

    Seems to be working for me so far.

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