+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 18

Thread: Beginners - First Purchase Recreational vs Techincal CC

  1. #1
    RBW Member pmane01 is an unknown quantity at this point pmane01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Houston
    Posts
    3
    never

    Post Beginners - First Purchase Recreational vs Techincal CC

    Dear All,

    I am fairly experienced in OC, but very new to rebreathers, I have been studying on the available books for the last couple months, and reading the forum, as well I managed to go in a pool with Poseidon 6 during a manufactuer demo in Texas very recently.

    A question I have been struggling with is related on how to make the best of the initial significant investment at the get go. In photography is common to begin with a used/new medium spec camera, understand how it works, improve the skills and thereafter decide on how best to make a significant investment in the camera needed with high specs. I would like to know your views if a symmetrical approach should be taken to rebreather diving, assuming that at the end the rebreather would be used for technical diving (deep, mixed gases, caves). If any of these questions have already been asked, please do not waste your time with the answer, just point me where to right thread.

    1. Should a new comer purchase a recreational unit and after a certain competence is built move on to higher spec units, or should he go with a technical rebreather and learn his way into it from the get-go? What i find different from photography is the initial investment is significant regardless of starting position.

    2. There are some units i.e. the Poseidon 6 that seems to be build for that transition from recreational to technical? how well of a job these units do across the range of uses? I am skeptical as something as usually all purpose vehicle are not excellent at anything and not bad at everything.

    3. What type of unit would teach better behavior in rebreather diving? In trying the Poseidon 6 i found the unit to be extremely automated, the electronics seems to be the life line , while reading about for example the KISS, its manual approach would prompt a new comer to develop better behaviors and skills? Would than a unit that can operate in manual / electronic be the solution? Something along the line if you really want to learn photography you need to learn how to control your camera in manual.

    4. Last question, what general views in beginning with a used unit?

    Sorry guys for the long note, but if experienced users or folks that have already decided on this question could voice their prospective would great.

    Thanks again in advance.

    Regards,

    Pier A Mane

  2. #2
    RBW Member MeRodent will become famous soon enough MeRodent will become famous soon enough MeRodent will become famous soon enough MeRodent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Hobart, Tasmania
    Posts
    177
    rEvo micro FT

    Beginners - First Purchase Recreational vs Techincal CC

    I was looking at the Poseidon or JJ originally and some of the same issues were things I looked at.

    In the end I ended up with a rEvo as I felt it had some advantages over the JJ. However the decision process of rec vs tech came down to the path I was heading down. In my case it was obvious that I will eventually be going to trimix and with the thought of spending what you need on helium OC, CCR just makes more sense. Once the endpoint was clear the thought of going to the minister for finance (SWMBO) in order to justify yet another battery in order to dive a unit that should be able to do so just that little bit deeper filled me with dread. By buying a tech unit I could justify the whole cost and progress through to deeper trimix diving without cost (with the exception if training) being the driver of when I progress.

  3. #3
    Hammerhead CCR diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike has a reputation beyond repute diverklondike's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Delaware, USA
    Posts
    3,153
    HammerHead CCR

    Sidekick & Others

    Re: Beginners - First Purchase Recreational vs Techincal CC

    I would suggest the following....

    1) Are you diving with others that are CCR divers? What units do they dive with? Having others in the crowd that dive the same unit is a good thing.

    2) There are a couple places where you can go and try/see several different units. You may want to speak to the folks at Dive Addicts or Add Helium..

    3) Head to Vegas next weekend... Most of the mfg's should be there.... Lots of good instructors too!

    I agree with your comment about the Poseidon. Way to electronic dependent. To your recreational versus technical question, 90% of the units out there will cover anything that you would want to do. It's primarily a matter of training and experience.

    Dive Safe!

    Mark

  4. #4
    So many CCR So little etc Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase has a reputation beyond repute Mark Chase's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Kent
    Posts
    5,205
    JJ Hybrid

    Inspo, Hammer Head, KISS rEvo

    Re: Beginners - First Purchase Recreational vs Techincal CC

    The whole concept of recreational CCR is mad

    A CCR is a CCR

    If you were to chose a so called recreational unit then all you are doing is accepting a load of unit imposed restrictions on your diving.

    If you do buy a "recreational" unit you wouldn't later be "mooving up" to a "full on tec unit" You would probably be mooving down in terms of automation

    As an example a KISS Classic has fec all on it except a PP02 display and its IMHO one of the best "Tec" units out there. No warnings no monitors no buzzers and flashing lights. Just a display that will tell you the PP02 in the loop.

    So with this in mind I ask why anyone would want to buy a CCR thats limited in its function?

    Why not buy one that can do everything and limit your usage of it with self dicipline.

    You can buy CCR with loads of bells and whistles on them which are not depth limited or run time limited and you can begin and end your CCR diving years on that unit. Or you can buy a restricted unit you know you will sell and "upgrade" later.

    ATB

    Mark

  5. #5
    RBW Member andrespp is on a distinguished road andrespp is on a distinguished road andrespp's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Cádiz (Spain)
    Posts
    450

    Re: Beginners - First Purchase Recreational vs Techincal CC

    1. In my opinion, you should start with the unit that you will be using later on. Be aware that CCR training is expensive and unit specific.

    2. As Mark states, Poseidon is a bad idea from the beginning. I will never rely on a fully automatic CCR, at least on the current state of art.

    3. mCCRs are great to get good habits (always know your ppO2 !!) and learn machine behaviour when learning to dive CCR. But be aware that eCCRs can also be used as mCCR, just by setting a lower setpoint (i.e. 0.9) so the electronics are just a parachute in case ppO2 falls behind that value.

    4. Depends on the unit. You better ask in this forum. However, if I were to buy an used eCCR, would send the unit (or at least the head with electronics) to manufacturer for review.

  6. #6
    RBW Member dreamdive has disabled reputation dreamdive's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    1,245
    Pathfinder, rEvo, Explorer

    Meg, PrismII, Titan, Optima, 7

    Re: Beginners - First Purchase Recreational vs Techincal CC

    Talk to the guys/gals at AddHelium.com. They feature over 13 different rebreathers including "recreational" units and teach more CCR divers than anyone else. They do no have an agenda regarding favoring one unit over another and are able to give you unbiased and sound advice.

  7. #7
    All IMVHO obviously... Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field has a reputation beyond repute Ben Field's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Weymouth, England
    Posts
    3,023
    NVMCCR Inspiration

    Classic KISS, Sport KISS

    Re: Beginners - First Purchase Recreational vs Techincal CC

    Mods- we ought to write a FAQ on this topic, it comes up alot.


    WRT #4- Yes, Do it.
    Your first CCR will not be ideal or your last so buy something suitable for local training and get on the horse, after a season or two you will start to form an idea of what you want and swap or modify to reach your ideal.


    Just my personal opinion but I would buy most other units before considering the Poseidon but I should preface that by saying I am an MCCR diver and the Poseidon is the epitome of everything wrong with CCR design IMVHO


    Lastly consider your location, if you choose something that requires back to base servicing then a local manufacturer might be ideal- having said that when I had a KISS I could get stuff from Jetsam in 3-4days which was excellent and helpful.

  8. #8

    Re: Beginners - First Purchase Recreational vs Techincal CC

    Mark hit the nail on the head.

    All a recreational CCR is, is a CCR with built in restrictions.

    I came from some previous units that had restrictions, and it was money I just threw away. I wish I'd just gotten a full blown, tec ready, CCR in the first place.

    I didnt see myself doing much past 200ft, if that, and now I'm regularly diving beyond 200ft, approaching 300ft.

    Yes, the cost is higher for the full meal deal, but knowing what I know now, I'd have saved a substantial amount of cash just paying up front for my Meg.

  9. #9
    Dave Tomblin wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc has a reputation beyond repute wedivebc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Vancouver Island BC Canada
    Posts
    3,802
    Hollis Prism 2, Megalodon

    CCR Instructor Trainer

    Re: Beginners - First Purchase Recreational vs Techincal CC

    As far as the new vs used arument may I point out that a camera is not life support equipment so buying a sub optimal camera will only result in lousy pictures.
    There are lots of good used RBs out there but there is lots of crap too. Be very sure to get some good guidance from a trained and trusted rebreather diver, or instructor before buying a used unit. Some machines may cost more than a new one to get them to servicable condition.
    Cheers,

    Dave....

    www.wedivebc.com

  10. #10
    Chett Lehrer Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L has much to be proud of Chett.L's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Venice Beach, California
    Posts
    4,381
    rEvo FT / Hollis P-2/ rEvo lll

    Prism Topaz-1 / rEvo ll

    Re: Beginners - First Purchase Recreational vs Techincal CC

    Quote Originally Posted by wedivebc  View Original Post
    As far as the new vs used arument may I point out that a camera is not life support equipment so buying a sub optimal camera will only result in lousy pictures.
    There are lots of good used RBs out there but there is lots of crap too. Be very sure to get some good guidance from a trained and trusted rebreather diver, or instructor before buying a used unit. Some machines may cost more than a new one to get them to servicable condition.
    I agree with Dave however I would consider a used unit and see if you like diving CCR in all aspects in terms effort that needs to be addressed with learning neutral buoyancy and post in pre-dive, cost & maintenance.

    Best regards,
    Chett. L

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts